Anthony Pigott Posted 16 November , 2005 Share Posted 16 November , 2005 I wondered if anyone knew the details of an incident that S.-D. reports. He ran into an mistaken exchange of fire between a British battery and a French Territorial unit on the road between Le Cateau and Bavai that evening in which a British soldier was killed. Thanks. Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Pigott Posted 16 November , 2005 Author Share Posted 16 November , 2005 Is it possible to search SDGW by date - I don't have access to it? The CWGC database is not searchable by date, at least I don't know how to. I would have thought the incident would have been recorded elsewere. Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Pigott Posted 19 November , 2005 Author Share Posted 19 November , 2005 Nobody come across this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD60 Posted 19 November , 2005 Share Posted 19 November , 2005 I noticed in a recent read about 'La Marne 1914' a sentence which could be connected to that. Something like: The british soldiers took care to inform french soldiers they were close to them because there have been before some mistakes, some incidents because the kakhi uniform was 'close' to the german one. I suppoose french soldiers were very careful when they saw uniform not belonging to their army blue/red uniform or other colors but nothing close to brown/green. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Pigott Posted 20 November , 2005 Author Share Posted 20 November , 2005 Thanks. This incident could be one of those referred to. If we could identify the British soldier killed (SDGW look-up?) we might have some leads. Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGWR Posted 20 November , 2005 Share Posted 20 November , 2005 Anthony, Soldiers, who died in France & Flanders on 21/08/14, according to SDGW: Pte George Cryer (1st Cheshires) KIA Pte John Parr (4th Middlesex) KIA Obviously not him. Pte Alfred Bradshaw (4th R.F) Died Bdr James Ketteridge (RHA & RFA) Died There are a couple of others, who died at home or in South Africa. Regards, AGWR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jimmy Knacky Posted 20 November , 2005 Share Posted 20 November , 2005 Between SDGW and CWGC for 21/08/1914 you get this info: 7 deaths 2 died at home in UK 1 died Cape Town South Africa 1 buried in France 1 got conflicting dates between SDGW (21/08/1914) and CWGC (21/08/1918) plus buried in France Leaves 2 possibles below I'd say it was John Parr not just because CWGC says Believed to be the first British battle casualty of the war. (cos they were both on the same day) But because of where he was buried and the historical information supplied by CWGC also below......... So John Parr? Alfred Alexander Bradshaw Private L/15220 4th Battalion.Royal Fusiliers Died 21/08/1914 Born Rugby Enlisted London Residence Croydon Grave: Cement House Cemetery Belgium I. A. 4. John Parr Private L/14196 4th Battalion. Middlesex Regiment Age: 20 Killed in Action 21/08/1914 Son of Edward Thomas and Alice Rosina Parr of 52 Lodge Lane. North Finchley. Believed to be the first British battle casualty of the war. Born Finchley Enlisted Mill Hill Middlesex Grave: St. Symphorien Military Cemetery Belgium I. A. 10. Historical Information: St. Symphorien Military Cemetery was made by the Germans in August 1914 after the Battle of Mons. It remained in their hands until November 1918, and has the distinction of containing the graves of some of the first and last casualties of the First World War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jimmy Knacky Posted 20 November , 2005 Share Posted 20 November , 2005 Oh one thing that sticks out among the two casualties is the prefix "L" before their army number even though they were different regiments Any body know what the ell it was for Owt to do with the BEF ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGWR Posted 20 November , 2005 Share Posted 20 November , 2005 It's not John Parr. He was supposed to have been killed by the Germans. Regards, AGWR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Pigott Posted 20 November , 2005 Author Share Posted 20 November , 2005 Thanks to you both for the look-ups. The best candidate seems to be James Ketteridge: correct date a gunner (Bombardier, 63852, Royal Field Artillery, 15th Bde. H.Q. ) buried at Montay (just north of Le Cateau) shown as 'Died' rather than KIA Regards Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Pigott Posted 20 November , 2005 Author Share Posted 20 November , 2005 Here's the actual quote from Smith-Dorrien in his memoirs: Shortly after leaving G.H.Q. on my return journey to Bavai I found the road blocked, bullets flying, and the sound of firing. Fairly puzzled as to how the enemy could have got there, I got out of my motor to find a battery in considerable confusion held up by sharpshooters across the road. It turned out to be a case of mistaken identity. The battery had been challenged by some French Territorials on outpost duty, and not understanding what was required of it had tried to push on, with the result that fire was opened on it and one of our gunners killed and two wounded. This was a bad beginning, but a brief parley arranged matters and I got to my head-quarters at 11 p.m., approved of the orders for the move next morning, and turned in. His diary entry doesn't add anything. Might there be a reference to it in a unit history or war diary? It's a good story, though it may not have been publicised at the time for obvious reasons. Regards Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Pigott Posted 11 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 11 December , 2005 Anyone with the unit history or war diary (Royal Field Artillery, 15th Bde.)? Thanks. Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 11 December , 2005 Share Posted 11 December , 2005 I wondered if anyone knew the details of an incident that S.-D. reports. He ran into an mistaken exchange of fire between a British battery and a French Territorial unit on the road between Le Cateau and Bavai that evening in which a British soldier was killed. Thanks. Anthony As an aside on this subject. Edward Pears as a liaision officer went in mortal dread of the French Territorials who mounted these roadblocks. He needed a French officer with him when travelling to and fro and was convinced that they had saved his life on more than one occasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Pigott Posted 24 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 24 December , 2005 Anyone with the unit history or war diary (Royal Field Artillery, 15th Bde.)? Thanks. Anthony Anyone know where such info. might be? Thanks Regards and Happy Christmas! Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rflory Posted 22 January , 2006 Share Posted 22 January , 2006 The correct man is 63852 Bombardier James William Ketteridge, RFA He was born on 5 November 1891, the son of William Ketteridge of Waggon Lane, Lower Tottenham, Middlesex, a munitions worker. He was educated at St. James School, Fore Street, Upper Edmonton and enlisted in the RFA on 12 January 1911. On 27 June 1914 he was awarded his 2nd Class Certificate at Army School. He married Mayr Florence, daughter of Benjamin Robert Singleton, late the Northampton Regiment at Kildare Parish Church in 1914 and they has a daughter, Rosary Annie Le Cateau Ketteridge born on 20 December 1914. He was qualified as a First-Class Signaller. He went to France with 11th Battery, 15th Brigade, RFA (5th Division) and on 21 August 1914 while reconnoitering at midnight at LeCateau he was shot by the French by mistake. There is a photo of him in DeRuvigny's Roll of Honour, Part 1. Dick Flory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcerha Posted 23 January , 2006 Share Posted 23 January , 2006 Dick, Brilliant information - I presume that Bdr Ketteridge was recce'ing on behalf of the battery at Le Cateau on their way up towards Mons on the 21st? Am I right in saying that as part of 15 Bde, 11th Battery were in support of the Norfolks, the Bedfords, the Cheshires and the Dorsets. Did they play any part in the action at Elouge/Audrengies on the 24th? or had they already withdrawn at that stage? Regards David PS did you get my PM on RHA equipment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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