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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Quadrilateral and Quadrangle


Tony Lund

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Does anyone have a map which shows both the Quadrilateral and the Quadrangle? Holmfirth men were killed in both and I would like to see where they are relative to each other.

Thanks,

Tony.

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Tony

If you PM me your email address I'll send you some trench map copies of the areas you want.

Steve Smith

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Tony.

Not being funny, but which "Quadrangle" and which "Quadrilateral" are you referring to? (there are ,at least, 2 of each!)

An image of one of the "Quadrilaterals" (the one near Ginchy) can be found on page 2 of the "trenchmap extracts" section on the website mentioned by Andy. It's on the "Guillemont-Ginchy-Bouleaux Wood" extract.

Dave.

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1st July 1916, 2nd Battalion, Duke of Wellington’s West Riding Regiment, moved from assembly trenches east of the sugar beet factory on the Mailly Maillet to Serre Road into the Quadrilateral trench system, by nightfall holding Burrow, Wulf and Legend trenches. 12th Brigade 4th Division.

30th July 1916, 11th Battalion, Sherwood Foresters Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire Regiment. The Sherwood Foresters were involved in two frontal attacks on the Quadrangle and Wood and Pearl trench area at 2am and 5-25am. 70th Brigade 8th and 23rd Division.

I do believe these two are not very far apart. I have now seen another Quadrilateral on a map of Neuve Chapelle, but the places I am interested in are on the Somme.

Thanks,

Tony.

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Tony

I am not sure about the Quadrangle, but the Quadrilateral is what the British rather boringly called the Heidenkopf sub-sector. If you know the northern end of Redan Ridge, where it joins the Mailly-Serre Road, then the Heidenkopf was sandwiched roughly between Serre Road No 2 cemetery and the memorial chapel opposite the French cemetery.

Jack

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Tony

I forgot to give you the key. EM = Erdmoerser [a whopping great short range dug in mortar] The symbol of a short line with a dot either side is a machine gun. HP = Horchposten [Listening post in a sap head] MHP = Minierterhorchposten [Mined out listening post - presumably a tunnel with a hole at the end!]

Jack

 

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Thanks Jack, I think a few of the Holmfirth men got a bit beyond the Quadrilateral and were then forced back. Later that night one of them went forward again to collect the personal effects from the bodies, that would place them between the Quadrilateral and the next trench by that little road.

Tony.

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Tony

That's quite possible. I cover the Heidenkopf in some detail in The German Army on the Somme 1914-1916. Essentially the place was indefensible in the face of determined assault, so before the end of the bombardment it was evacuated apart from a handful of men. Mines were exploded, (not very effectively) then there was a considerable battle later on on 1 Jul 16. The final result was a great many casualties on both sides and, by 2 Jul 16, a couple of hundred British prisoners being rounded up and sent to the rear.

Jack

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Does anyone have a map which shows both the Quadrilateral and the Quadrangle?

Tony,

As you now know where the Quadrilateral that you seek (one of 7 on the Somme alone!!!) is located, I won't post any further maps of it, but I'm afraid I can't find a "Quadrangle" nearby. There are a few trenches with "Quadrangle" in the name, but the only actual place called "the Quadrangle" that I can see is a group of trenches near Mametz Wood which, as you know, is not really near the Heidenkopf.

Sorry!

Dave.

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Dave,

Unfortunately I cannot find where I originally got the information from about the 11th Sherwood Foresters at the Quadrangle on the 30th July. However British Battalions on the Somme says the battalion was in trenches north of Bazent in le Petit on the 29th July and withdrawn to Mametz Wood on the 2nd August.

So your Quadrangle would seem to be the one.

Tony.

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Thank to everyone, it is now clear that the Quadrilateral I am looking for is also called the Heidenkopf. Near the Mailly-Serre Road, and close by the Serre Road No 2 Cemetery. I wonder if anyone knows if it contains any unknown graves identified as belonging to men of the Duke of Wellington’s Regiment?

The Quadrangle is the system by Mametz Wood and Acid Drop Copse near Contalmaison. The 9th Battalion, Duke of Wellington’s, had a bad time there on the 7th July, whilst the 2nd Battalion had a lot of causalities around the Quadrilateral on the 1st July.

I now know where to look on a map and where they are relative to each other, and to Thiepval Wood where the other main group of Holmfirth men were with the local territorial battalion, the 1st 5th Battalion, Duke of Wellington’s. The territorials did not leave that area for several weeks and then they didn’t go far, but they knew what was happening with the 2nd Battalion, further up the line. A letter home from one of the 1st 5th gave the names of the 2nd Battalion’s men who were killed on the 1st July. The brother of one of the dead 2nd battalion men was killed with the 9th Battalion seven days later, so it is understandable that some information should be well known, but it is still surprising how they found out what was happening to their mates elsewhere on the front.

Tony.

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This is the site of the Quadrangle

post-1268-1124563596.jpg

and Wood Support

post-1268-1124563635.jpg

and Wood Trench

post-1268-1124563758.jpg

I hope I am right :ph34r:

Martin

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From http://www.cwgc.org./cwgcinternet/cemetery...ry=67200&mode=1

"In June 1916, the road out of Mailly-Maillet to Serre and Puisieux entered No Man's Land about 1,300 metres south-west of Serre. On 1 July 1916, the 31st and 4th Divisions attacked north and south of this road and although parties of the 31st Division reached Serre, the attack failed. The 3rd and 31st Divisions attacked once more on the 11 November, but again without success. Early in 1917, the Germans fell back to the Hindenburg Line and on 25 February, Serre was occupied by the 22nd Manchesters. The village changed hands once more in March 1918 and remained under German occupation until they withdrew in August. In the spring of 1917, the battlefields of the Somme and Ancre were cleared by V Corps and a number of new cemeteries were made, three of which are now named from the Serre Road. Serre Road Cemetery No 2 was begun in May 1917 with the burials in Plots I and II, but was greatly enlarged after the Armistice. There are now 7,127 Commonwealth burials of the First World War in the cemetery, mostly dating from 1916. Of these, 4,944 are unidentified. The cemetery, which was not completed until 1934, was designed by Sir Edwin Lutyens.

No. of Identified Casualties: 2184 "

Regards

Richard

post-1376-1124578070.jpg

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Photograph of "Serre 2 Cemetery Heidenkopf aerial 1947" from a previous post on this forum.

Regards

Richard

post-1376-1124578689.jpg

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  • 14 years later...

Has anybody written a “biography” of the Quadrilateral? It was such an influential and impressive fortification.  It features in so many regiments’ stories, yet it has a life of its own, almost.  How it was constructed and it’s history...day by day.  Or is there one out there I don’t know about?? 

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