eagleeye Posted 31 July , 2005 Share Posted 31 July , 2005 My grandfather sailed with the 7th Division on 4/10/14 from England for Zeebrugge, the SS Armenian was one of the ships they travelled on, has anyone any pics of her or any knowledge of her fate during the war? Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Lowrey Posted 31 July , 2005 Share Posted 31 July , 2005 Rod, I believe the Armenian in question would be a 8825 grt steamer of the Leyland Line. Built 1895. Sunk June 28, 1915 by U 24 20 miles off Trevose Head while carrying a consignment of mules from the U.S. Best wishes, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beersheba Posted 18 May , 2008 Share Posted 18 May , 2008 Hello all. i know this topic is a bit old by now,but i need to know more about the ships last voyage and what happened to it..In particular did the U-20 surface and shell the ship and also did the u-boat captain know if the ship was loaded with mules or not before sinking it.. as you can tell from my profile picture i have a interest in these animals and have been asked to do a documentry about the sinking..Which might prove difficult as nether myself,or anyone else in the "mule world" knew anything about this incident..which is why i need your help.. Pictures of the ship,and more details would be most usefull I have looked all over the net but there seems little information to go on.. Thanks for any help people can send.. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrecktec Posted 18 May , 2008 Share Posted 18 May , 2008 Andy, She was on a voyage from Newport News to Avonmouth, with a consignment of mules and she was captured then sunk by torpedo. As well as the mules, 29 men were lost. Difficult to say if the Commander knew of the mules but probably did. Best if you can find someone who has the KTB of the U-boat. Mules were very important in the British war effort so the commander would not care about them. Cheers Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kath Posted 18 May , 2008 Share Posted 18 May , 2008 SS Armenian -Official No. 105338 Picture of "Horse fittings on SS Armenian" http://nla.gov.au/nla.cs-pa-http%253A%252F...L1%253F174678,I http://www.histarmar.com.ar/HYAMNEWS/HojaI...EWS%20PAGE1.htm "DIVERS DISCOVER MULE GRAVEYARD Divers exploring new wreck positions off the North Cornish coast have dived SS Armenian; a 8,825 ton wreck in 80m, and the largest merchant ship lost off that coast. The ship was carrying 3,000 mules which had been heading for the WW1 front line in France. "There were an awful lot of bones," commented Rick Ayrton, an Inspiration diver who explored the wreck on Sunday 1 September. The team were diving from Chris Lowe's boat Atlantic Diver from Newquay. "The shot was by the boilers, and we all went forward. It's a huge wreck, 150m long. We had a good look for the bell, but the mule bones provided the easiest means of identifying the wreck. They were everywhere," said diver Gavin Haywood. SS Armenian was sailing from Newport News, USA with supplies destined for France. Divers found she was armed with two guns each side of the poop deck. She was first shelled and disabled, then torpedoed and sunk by German submarine U38 on 28 June 1915. The dive team are the first to be able to give a reliable account of the wreck, information published previously about the wreck's position is inaccurate by some 20 miles. 2 September 2002" Kath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kath Posted 18 May , 2008 Share Posted 18 May , 2008 According to http://www.uboat.net/wwi/ the Commander of U 24 was Rudolf Schneider: http://www.uboat.net/wwi/boats/index.html?boat=24 http://www.uboat.net/wwi/men/commanders/304.html Kath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Lowrey Posted 18 May , 2008 Share Posted 18 May , 2008 Lots of incorrect information about this one. First of all, Armenian was sunk by the German submarine U 24 under Kplt. Rudolf Schneider — a very distinguished commander in his own right — not by U 20, not by U 38. When ordered to stop by the submarine, Armenian didn't, so U 24 opened fire on her with her 88mm gun(s). After numerious hits, Armenian was abandoned. U 24 then finishes her off with a torpedo. At some point Schneider did become award she was apparently carrying animals -- her KTB says so -- but does not specify mules. Best wishes, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beersheba Posted 18 May , 2008 Share Posted 18 May , 2008 All very useful chaps and thanks to everyone who has come back to me.. Ron - your right mate, they (the mules) where just another cargo of war matrial to the skipper of the boat..but you have to be a cold hearted ****** not to think about sending 3000 dumb defenceless animals to a certain death. In WW2 a american ship was sunk by the japs BUT that was a stright torpedo job and they could'nt of known what was on board....the story goes, some mules did get off the american ship (the holds would of been open i guess to let in air in the pacific heat.).and they where later seen swimming around the lifeboats trying to get in with there handellers ..terrible story that..but this one about the armenian seems just as bad.. As a mule man i guess i'm biased but it seems as bad to sink this ship knowing the cargo as say the Lusatania thats my thoughts anyway..war is hell..and more so for the poor animals.. the Picture Kath posted came from a Aussie site..and is from the boer war so the ship may well of been carrying equines for some years..any thoughts.?? I wonder if a maritime website might bring some light to this as well.. i will let everyone know when the documentry is due to air anyway.. Thanks again quick and fast service on the long trail as ever.. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Lowrey Posted 19 May , 2008 Share Posted 19 May , 2008 Armenian had passnger accomidations until 1904 and then became a pure cargo vessel. Best wishes, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beersheba Posted 19 May , 2008 Share Posted 19 May , 2008 Mike..any pictures of the ship anywhere.?? could the aussie pictures be of another ship with the same name.???not likely is it.... Will have to do some more looking getting more interesting all the time.. cheers Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kath Posted 20 May , 2008 Share Posted 20 May , 2008 Andy, Try to get sight of W G NEALE: The Tides of War and the Port of Bristol 1914-1918, pub. 1976 by the Port of Bristol Authority. Page 116 Chapter X 1914-19: My Kingdom for - a Mule. This describes the mule (& horse) boats entering Avonmouth port. There's a description of the loss of SS Armenian & other ships (the Anglo Columbian) on page 134. Neale says it was the U 38, which was generally believed at the time, but obviously modern research has identified U 24. According to Neale, Captain I?rickey (Trickey in New York Times) of the Armenian was awarded the Distinguished Service Medal. Kath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kath Posted 20 May , 2008 Share Posted 20 May , 2008 PICTURE: http://www.shawsavillships.co.uk/armenian.htm A search in the New York Times Archive gets some interesting comments. http://www.nytimes.com/ Description by Captain: http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/...amp;oref=slogin Put in "Trevose Head" http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/...9619C946496D6CF Mules: http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/...9619C946496D6CF http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/...9619C946496D6CF The Red Duster website: http://www.red-duster.co.uk/WSTAR8.htm "ARMENIAN was built in 1895 by Harland & Wolff at Belfast with a tonnage of 8825grt, a length of 512ft 6in, a beam of 59ft 3in and a service speed of 13 knots. Sister of the Victorian she was launched on 25th November 1895 as the Indian for Frederick Leyland & Co. but delivered in the following September as the Armenian, commencing her maiden voyage from Liverpool to Boston on 28th. From November 1899 until 1902 she served alongside her sister as a transport during the Boer War. On 20th March 1903 she was transferred to White Star management, but not ownership, and joined the cargo service between Liverpool and New York, the passenger service having been discontinued. In 1910 she reverted to the Leyland livery with a pink funnel. She commenced her last sailing on 3rd March 1914 prior to being briefly laid up before being deployed as a horse transport to France. On 28th June 1915 she was torpedoed and sun by U-24 off Trevose Head in Cornwall after the crew were allowed to abandon ship. " Kath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clio Posted 20 May , 2008 Share Posted 20 May , 2008 Given casualty rates on both the Eastern and Western Fronts, I fear that the belligerents were not overly concerned over the mass slaughter of human beings, let alone a ship full of mules. - but I share your disgust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spithead Posted 20 May , 2008 Share Posted 20 May , 2008 According to Neale, Captain I?rickey (Trickey in New York Times) of the Armenian was awarded the Distinguished Service Medal. Kath. Kath, just for the record, the medal awarded to Captain James Trickey was the Distinguished Service Cross. Regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pw643 Posted 20 May , 2008 Share Posted 20 May , 2008 I am sure I had a picture of the ship in Southampton but can't find it. 1 Bty RFA XLV Bde (8 Div) sailed from Southampton to Le Havre 05/11/14 I will keep looking Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kath Posted 20 May , 2008 Share Posted 20 May , 2008 Thanks, John. Looked in the London Gazette, but could not find. Kath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spithead Posted 20 May , 2008 Share Posted 20 May , 2008 Thanks, John. Looked in the London Gazette, but could not find. Kath. Kath - my apologies for not including the following, LG 22.12.1916 p12559 Regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kath Posted 21 May , 2008 Share Posted 21 May , 2008 Thanks, John. Found it. Kath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beersheba Posted 21 May , 2008 Share Posted 21 May , 2008 thanks again everybody on this topic.. i dont know why i should bother anymore buying books when most questions can be answered by someone ..or several on this site... We'll be filming next week and i'll leave a reply on here to let you all know when the programme is going to be on.. I just hope its not going to be one of those documentries that keeps on going back to the same questions and statements a dozen times in the same programme as if we cant remember what was said 5 mins ago.. We'll be fiming next week and i'll leave a ....damn..doing it already... cheers everyone.. Andy and film star meg.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kath Posted 22 May , 2008 Share Posted 22 May , 2008 I remembered this but couldn't find it yesterday: http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/sub.htm Kath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beersheba Posted 31 May , 2008 Share Posted 31 May , 2008 just to let everyone know the filming went well and they now want t have a shot of meg swimming for some reason best known to the film crew... will keep you all informed of a airing date but some time in the austum i think. Cheers Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabtoe Posted 2 March , 2017 Share Posted 2 March , 2017 Hi, Tomorrow 3rd March 2017 SS Armenian shipwreck will have the protection under The Protection of Military Remains Act 1986- Order 2017, see link:- http://www.legislation.gov.uk/id/uksi/2017/147 Regards dabtoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasranger Posted 3 March Share Posted 3 March I believe my great grandfather joined the Armenian and sailed at 2000 on the 18th of August 1914 from Southampton bound for Boulogne. Sadly it would be his last sea journey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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