Help Preserve Rusted Artifact

[egbert]

The farmer who owns the field, my Granddad was KIA 1918, donated me a rotten, rusted Artillery Luger which he found on same grounds. I would appreciate any hints how to preserve the artifact from further deteriorating. Does anybody know a technique in order to preserve this precious piece?:

[Ralph J. Whitehead]

Egbert, I am an amateur at this but I have had success with a good cleaning of dirt and loose material. If you want it to stay 'as is' I have used a Rustoleum clear coat product that seals metal and prevents further rust and decay from moisture.

I am sure that some of the more experienced members will offer better advise, as such I will watch this thread as well as I have a number of similar items.

Ralph

[CROONAERT]

I've had much success in the preservation of many of my relics by ,firstly (carefully) cleaning them up and, as Ralph says removing any "loose" debris (incl. rust).On hardier items, I've used a fine wire brush for this. I've then "sealed" the item ,believe it or not,by using a "clear" or "neutral" boot polish (though I did obtain a fantastic finish on a WW2 German helmet by using black).

Some of the items that I've applied this to have been out of the ground now for over 20 years without any further deteriation.

Dave

[cooper]

I have read somewhere to do this, I have tried it and found it very good, althought it does take some time.

If you were to place the artifact in a warm, dry environment like an airing cupboard for approx six months, this process will stabilize the oxidationl and stop further corrosion. All you have to do then is to take the excess rust off and the artifact will not rust further, unless of course you place it in to a damp environment again.

Once this process has been done, you will find removing the excess rust is very easy, just by lightly brushing the artifact the rust will fall.

I have tried this with a few relics and found it very successful.

all the best,

Coops

[Tom Morgan]

You can also get hold of various rust removers which convert the rust (ferric oxide) into iron phosphate. These usually turn the rust black and you see quite a few objects in museums which have been treated in this way. You get them from car parts shops and the staff will usually be able to tell you how the various types work and what kind of finish they produce.

I've also placed a rusty object in a warm environment until oxidisation has stopped, then removed all loose rust with a wire-brush, and varnished the item.

[cooper]

I too have used the rust removers from car shops, the problem is they also prime the area in question. to solve this, I simply leave the substance on the item for approx half of the required time, then clean it off, job done.

There is another solution which I have tried. I tried this on a Lebel revolver, it was very pitted when I got it. First I quickly rubbed over the rust with a wire brush. then I concocted a misture of Coca Cola (the cheaper the better) and mixed it with normal vinegar.

I emersed the pistol in the mixture for roughly a day (dependent on condition), I then pulled it out of the mixture and used wire wool to clean back the rust. This revealed the natural metal finish and completely cleared away the rust on the surface areas.

I hope this helps,

All the best,

Cooper

[egbert]

So far I 'd like to thank y'all for your advice. Before going into action, some more details: I live in a dry, hot climate , so I believe the oxidation process may have stopped. I already brushed with wire-brush, result: endless rust . If I continue, I guess nothing remains. any new idea? Also , how do I remove the dirt/rust package from barrel? It's heavy compacted in 80 years or so; the caliber literally scaled down 50%. If I use brutal force, luger would be 100% history! If no new advice , I will try methods proposed.

[182 CEF]

The way I would do it is remove all the loose rust and dirt. Then, Before you seal it, place it in the oven at about 150 degrees for abput 20 mins. This will get rid of the moisture that may still be in the item. I have found that if you do not do this, and seal it with moisture still in it, the item will "rot" woth out you knowing about it until it is to late to correct it. I have done this with iron Indian Trade goods I have found ( dated 1600s) and with US Civil War items.

I have heard of some in the US doing this with "dug" arty shells. Of coures them remove the powder first.

In one case a Man in Fredricksburg VA did not remove all the powder form a 10 lbs Parrott shell, While watching a football game his stove blew up and landed in the back yard!!. It's true, I knew the guy that did it.

Dean Owen

Whitby Ontario

[egbert]

Guys,

thank you all for helping. Before going on with preserving, I'd like to show you my spectacular results with cheapest Cola and vinegar on the following pictures (compare with 1st picture on this thread).

Now I need Help For Round No. 2 . After reviewing the pictures, what do you folks recommend further, before sealing/preserving? Going on with expensive cola? Come on - it's serious stuff, give it a try!!!

[egbert]

Here you see an exploded cartridge right in front of the chamber. Was this the reason the Luger was abonded?

[egbert]

I cannot get the compacted dirt and rust out of the barrel- just reached 1,5 inch. Any idea how to proceed?

[egbert]

no4

[egbert]

no5

[Geoff Parker]

Egbert

From the photos the luger seems to have come up well.

As for the muck in the barrel, I would suggest starting with something

like a bradle and working into the compacted earth to loosen it. Once

you've broken it down a bit try using a round file with a tapered end, just keep twisting into the earth. It will probably take some effort until you manage to break down it down sufficiently for it to come out the barrel. There are some acids available, a chap I know uses diluted patio cleaner, but the trouble with that is once you emerse the pistol into the cleaner its out of your control. To finish I would be inclined to paint it with a durable black paint, not too thick, otherwise it will hide some of the detail of the pistol.

Hope this of use

Geoff

[Alan Lines]

A good job well done Egbert. The best person to ask is probably one of the sellers on ebay or maybe in a museum in France. They seem to coat their items with something similar to a hammerite solution. Also looks like the items are sprayed.

[AOK4]

After the rust is gone, it seems linseed oil is as good as varnish... (I have this from a man who has treated dozens of artefacts this way)

Jan

[Guest Bert Hoornaert]

After I have cleaned the artifacts I find with diluted hydrocloric acid and a wire brush, I finish them with "Realco Fix-Rouille". It is a milky fluid that i put on with a sponge. When it is completely dry, it results in a very thin semi-transparent black finish. I apply it in three layers. Even on the objects I treated ten years ago (when I started with my hobby) there is no rust coming trough.

I hope this can help you,

Bert

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

Egbert,

Just wanted to say that you have done a bloomin good job!

Do you take commissions?

Ian

[cooper]

Hi Egbert,

the Coca Cola and Vinegar has done its trick! The luger is looking well.

With regard to the dirt in the barrel. Previously I have found the the dirt does not always extend completely down the barrel. I have tried different clearing methods.

Unfortunately any liquid forced down can compact the first layer even tighter, making it more difficult to clear.

As Geoff has alreasy pointed out, I would suggest the same.

My view is to try to either put something long and sharp (making sure no rounds are in situ) down the barrel , twist it to try to push it through the middle, this may take some time. If this doesn't work possibly try it with a long thin drill bit being very careful to not to touch the sides.

You only have to reach the pocket of air usually trapped by the mud.

Once the the hole or part of has been made you 'should' find it fairly easy to clear the mud and debris from around the areas as there is now a little movement available.

Finally a little WD40 spray down the barrel and some sort of devised cleaning rod should see the barrel completely free.

I tried this with am M79 Reichs Kommision Revolver and it worked perfectly.

I hope this helps and good look with the preservation, not that you need it looking at the work so far!

Some great views on this subject.

I seem to have been a little slow on the up take of a reply, oh well.

All the best everyone

James Cooper

[egbert]

Where shall I begin? Alright I repeated the marvelous Cola/Vinegar trick and received the following result (see picture)! I cannot do better, unless I want to rub the Luger into nirvana. Isn't it gorgeous? Thanks for all the encouragements:Cooper for his priceless Cola trick (what does the Cola do in my stomach? Same results ), all the others for the good advice. I had to choose one preferred method - because I am a poor country boy , I was glad that Cooper advised cheap coke and not the real one. The barrel is completely free, down to the chamber!! I used the recommended brutal force trick - and it worked perfectly. It is in such a good state, that I was attempted to disassemble it - I am glad that I didn't proceed. Now comes the tough part: which is my next preferred method of conserving? You gave super advice again. First of all Deans method of drying! And then=Bert what is your proposed stuff in Alabama English???? )Jan what is linseed oil??? Flemish leftovers from last dinner?? Please advise. I tend to opt for Bert's method , please explain what the heck this French stuff is about. Bert , imagine, I need to go in a Southern Alabama store and they have to understand what I need (I cannot use French words right now, so fresh after the war )

[egbert]

another one before sealing!

[AOK4]

I think hydrocloric means HCl in chemistry. I would certainly NOT recommend this. It is a very dangerous and poisonous acid that can seriously damage your finds (I've got some experience with the product)...

About linseed oil: it is oil derived from the seeds of flax. It is a product that, once dry, protects your things like varnish.

Jan

[CROONAERT]

About linseed oil: it is oil derived from the seeds of flax. It is a product that, once dry, protects your things like varnish.

...It's also what one rubs on ones cricket bat, old chap. Ah, the sound of leather on willow on an English Summer's evening.

(Actually, I hate cricket !!!! )

Dave.

[Guest Bert Hoornaert]

The hydrochloric acid (HCl) is indeed a very strong (and thus dangerous, so be careful!) acid. Do not inhale the fumes! HCl burns the skin and burns trough clothing. Also never poor water in a jar with acid otherwise a very violent reaction can occur.

I use the acid in a diluted form of 30%. To clean iron artifacts I put them 10 seconds in the solution en then rinse them with lots of water so there's no acid left on the object. Then I give them a brush until all the rust has gone. For copper artifacts: you must put them not longer than two seconds in the solution, otherwise it will be corroded (yellow copper will turn red for example). This way (after a bit of practice on unvaluable items) I cleaned hundreds of items by now with good results and in a rather quick way.

For the the protection of the iron against rust I use Realco Fix-Rouille. It is produced by the Realco company. Further information about this product I will give you next week because I am not at home now and I find nothing on the internet about it.

I'll try to make some digital pictures of some of my treated artifacts, so you can judge the results before you treat your luger. I hope I find some time for that because I'm having exams until the 26th of June.

I'll try to post the pictures and the info on the product as soon as possible.

Regards,

Bert

[Guest Bert Hoornaert]

Egbert,

I did a little bit of research this weekend and I found that "Realco 2001" only exports to countries in Europe, the Middle East, North Africa and Asia. So you won't find it in Alabama. I wrote a letter to Realco to obtain technical information about Realco Fix-Rouille, so when I receive that information you can look for a similar product in your region.

I haven't had the time to make pictures of some treated artifacts yet, I'm sorry for that.

Bert