SS Kansas City (1917) - Help please

[Seadog]

This Bristol City Line merchant ship apparently left New York on the 30/8/1917 and was lost. Geoffs search engine gives just three records for the ship all of them marine artillery. I cannot find any records for the seaman lost. No doubt there is a simple answer to this as they must be on the CWGC database somewhere, so if any member can help with this please post.

Thanks

Norman

[Michael Lowrey]

Norman,

There's a simple reason alright as to why the crew aren’t in the CWGC database: Kansas City was last sighted on September 5, 1917 “when the convoy, of which she formed a part, was dispersed by a hurricane” to use the description in Lloyd's War Losses: The First World War.

Best wishes,

Michael

[Seadog]

So why are the crew not on the CWGC data base when the three non-merchant navy crew like these are?

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/3041047/

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/3043852/

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/3041678/

This cannot be correct the crew must be there somewhere unless there has been a complete oversight.

N

[Michael Lowrey]

My point was that it's not an oversight and that the merchant marine crew aren’t eligible for CWGC commemoration. The gunners on Kansas City were serving military and thus are commemorated regardless of how they died. Merchant marine crew on the other hand are eligible essentially only if they died from a war-related cause. (I forget the exact wording.) The crews of missing ships often but not always were presumed to have died by a war-related cause. A hurricane is not a war-related cause and Kansas City is presumed to have foundered in a hurricane.

[Seadog]

Great so the possible 30 MN crew members killed in the pursuance of their war duties(Supplying the food etc needed by the UK) are completely ignored whilst those who die from illness at home or commit suicide etc are included on the CWGC "Debt of Honour" database, that seems fair (Not). The three men listed above were on the same ship and I am beggared if I can see any difference. This is truly pathetic and those responsible should be ashamed.

N

[keithmroberts]

Those responsible for drawing up the rules regarding commemoration are almost certainly themselves long dead.

Keith

[johnboy]

Were Merchant Seamen counted as 'armed forces' ?

[Seadog]

The Merchant Navy was treated as a civilian service despite the fact that it was our lifeline in both world wars. This resulted in most deaths from enemy action being recorded by the CWGC and all others ignored although as was the case with the Kansas City she was undertaking war duty in a convoy and the army men were added to the so-called Debt of Honour. This of course means that the total number of MN deaths in both wars cannot be ascertained accurately. Even relatively recently the MOD persisted with this ludicrous attitude until the case of the WW2 ship SS Storaa which was eventually designated as a protected wreck even after the MOD fought to stop this from happening. The case makes interesting reading and illuminates the authorities attitude towards the MN.

SS Kansas City

Remembering those who are not remembered

Image Link

https://www.flickr.com/photos/glosters/25962998210

SS Storaa

http://www.richardbuxton.co.uk/matter/fogg-ss-storaa

N