Astounding document

[Desmond7]

Today I was helping pupils from Ballymena Academy who are 'off to the battlefields' next year, to find out a little more about local men and specifically those on their school memorial.

I had been promised something special by their teacher when he arranged the session.

To my utter amazement, he produced a photo album showing the YCV (Young Citizen Volunteers) battalion of the Royal Irish Rifles covering the era 1915-1916.

Among the pictures were 'action shots' of the YCVs in the German trenches on July 1.

The first is a view looking over a trench parapet into what I can only describe as a vision of hell - no joking. German trench lines are clearly visible as are explosions and puffs of white shrapnel in the air. Stunned - never, ever seen a picture of this action in my life.

The second shows Prisoners being covered by a Lewis gun team as they are herded out of the Schwaben Redoubt by British troops. The third picture of the action is roughly similar.

These are not pictures staged or well behind the lines, they are clearly captioned underneath in the photographer's own hand (he was a member of the YCV).

It also includes the rather more famous picture of a tin-hatted Tommy standing with a trench mortar round at the end of a sap at Thiepval Wood. I have seen this picture in many books on the Somme but in this book he is clearly named as John Ewing. Other pictures of YCVs are also named.

Pictures of front line trenches, fatigue parties, the ancre 'swamp' and views from the ruins of Hamel looking outo towards the high ground occupied by the Germans were also there before my eyes.

For militaria enthusiasts ... I also discovered that the YCVs DID NOT use Royal Irish Rifles shoulder flashes or cap badges. They are clearly shown in the trenches in 1915 with flat caps with YCV shamrock and crown badge and with YCV as their shoulder title.
In the 1916 pictures they still retain their YCV shoulder title.
This interested me because all I had read so far indicated that the YCVs wore the Rifles cap badge and shoulder flash.

When I say I was trembling while looking at this book, it is completely true. I cannot post these pictures because the school only has 'custody' of the book from a local family.

I don't think they realised just how significant this document is to those interested in WW1 in general and the 36th (Ulster) Division in particular.
What a morning.

Edited 14 September , 2014 by SPOF

[steve fuller]

Wow! What a find Des! That justifies the use of the word 'special' for sure. Shame they cant / wont make it available isnt it?

Ill bet theres collections like that all over the place that no one knows about?

[Desmond7]

Steve - it was a wonderful experience. This picture - copied from Billy Bittles' HUGE Ulster Div. site (hope he forgives me!) is the picture of Ewing which appears as a large print in the photoalbum.

I really hope that someday soon, it will be possible to post a few of the other staggering Somme pictures.

The teacher told me that the family had been given the book by a relative. They loaned it to the school but I don't think even the history department had quite realised what they had.

des

[Ralph J. Whitehead]

Des,

This is a great find and of course I would like to see them all, any chance of a scan? Copies? Etc. You must make some arrangements with the family if at all possible. I am sure you are already doing something along these lines now. Perhaps sharing some other detials of the events with them might help?

I had no idea anything like this even existed, you are right in that I doubt anyone but you realized the importance of these items.

I am glad the talk went so well, are more being planned? Congratulations,

Ralph

[Desmond7]

Wheels are in motion.

BUT I don't know what sort of price would be placed on this album. To me it's priceless.

There are about 60 pictures - starting with a 'snapshot' of men on the boat to France, route marching, haggling with 'hawkers', first time 'in the line', trenches under snow, tommies in the 'fur coats', dug outs and of course the series of pictures around Thiepval.

It also contains a hand written list of various YCV men etc. and pictures of many graves with clearly identifiable 'unit messages' etc.

As far as reproduction of the pictures is concerned ... who knows. I hope I will be given permission to take some digital 'shots' of the album.

Another thing ... surely this man, who was basically taking pics of his mates and the places where they fought, should not have had a camera in such a forward position. He was not a war corr. - just a tommy!

Des

[steve fuller]

Influential parents praps? must have been something specific as I thought cameras were relatively expensive items back then???

The very best of luck to you on this one Des, i really hope it all comes off (and doesnt cost you a small fortune ). I wouldnt mind betting the pics carry info that would help out all types of people in the future, so it'd be great so hear of their release into the 'real world'.

[Desmond7]

Steve - The query about the price was a bit of whimsy on my part ..

When I has finished viewing the album, I turned around to the teacher and said: "Have you any idea how much this is worth?"

He thought I was going to tell him! I felt like someone on the Antiques Roadshow

Your thoughts about the expense of a camera etc are entirely correct. The YCVs were the 'Young Chocolate Soldiers' who came from the greater Belfast area (mostly) and many of them were clerks and skilled men. A bit like a 'Commercial Pals' battalion.

I don't think there is much possibility of the album being offered for sale. It really is a matter of getting permissions for copies.

In meantime, I'm doing my best to remember small details ..

I.E. in the Schwaben 'prisoners' picture, you can see German soldiers with flat caps on and their hands up. Interestingly the picture is taken from a reverse slope position with the Germans and their guards on the skyline. On the left foreground, you can see one Tommy aiming a Lewis Gun with a couple of other men next to him. It looked to me as if they were in a shell hole.

Sorry for getting all worked up over this but there are so few 'action' pics from this sector on July 1. I find it incredible!

[chris.wight]

Des, it seems you've been at the right place at the right time again, what with the MM at the Family History Day, and now this! Of course, you know everything goes in cycles of three so what do you do for an encore (perhaps you should rush off and buy a lottery ticket!)?

Thanks for sharing the story and certainly I hope you are able to show us these photos in the future.

[Desmond7]

Chris - what a good idea!

Anyway, I now realise that Ewing's first name is John. So I hit the MIC's in search of the gent. Came up with this ...

I take it the 14 refers to the 14th Btn Royal Irish Rifles?

If so, this looks to be his card.

Interestingly, there are two entries for the same man:-

1. Medal card of Ewing, J

Corps Regiment No Rank

Royal Irish Rifles 14/14540 Serjeant

2. Medal card of Ewing, John Adams

Corps: Royal Irish Rifles

Regiment No: 14/ 14540

Rank: Corporal...

Medal card of Ewing, John Adams

Royal Irish Rifles 14/ 14540 Corporal

18th Royal Irish Rifles 14/ 14540 Warrant Officer Class 2

London Regiment 14/14540 Warrant Officer Class 2

The Sherlock mood has struck!!

[harribobs]

it sounds an incredible find!

i know that they may not want to sell them but they should be scanned and stored digitally for safety if nothing else

[J T Gray]

My ignorance of Irish geography (North and South) is near-total, so I don't know which "national" body would be concerned but...

Isn't it likely that this staggering find could be of interest to a national collection? I'd love to see them,and I'd hate to think of depriving their current owners of them but perhaps the relevant national body should at least have copies of these? They sound as though they may well be unique and as such...

Hope I'm not throwing too big a spanner in...

Adrian

[J T Gray]

P.S. You lucky, lucky beggar! I'm green with envy, and I suspect the whole forum is too!

Adrian

[steve fuller]

Sorry for getting all worked up over this but there are so few 'action' pics from this sector on July 1. I find it incredible!

Carry on des, carry on!! . You go get 'em mate .

The significance of recording the 1st July doesnt escape me either; how few pictorial accounts are there of the battle in the 1st place, and how fewer of them are such as the ones youve seen?

Try telling them theres hundreds of WW1 mad-heads dying to see them & we'll charge with fixed pencils if copies arent released! 4 Pals Btns with pencils extended; thatd make even the bravest man laugh (or should it be waver ...?!)

[Desmond7]

Do members of the forum who are interested in the Somme in particular believe there is a 'book' possibility here? I'm only flying a kite ... but a well produced book of these pictures with some expert caption writing, explanations, action accounts etc seems like it would be a really NEW addition to the 'grass roots' literature of WW1?

I realise it does focus on one battalion .. but the range of locations taken would surely be of interest and then, of course, there are the 1st July pics as the piece de resistance!

Opinions? And remember, I'm not pulling any strokes here ... it really is a family document and their feelings should always be paramount.

Des

[steve fuller]

The growing interest in the subject should allow for another book, especially with the new info & a fresh perspective (as I believe this would rightly claim).

And one battalions experiences would likely apply to many others, so the 'academic' value wouldnt necessarily be restricted too much to just that unit surely?

Def' worth a thought Des, and with your literary touch, has the potential to be quite a good piece.

Steve

[spike10764]

Go for it Des,

You can't let something like this "disappear" again. At the least the suggestion of scanning them for preservation( giving the scanned media back to the family, if that is their wish) the photos will not last forever.

What are your lottery numbers , by the way?

[KONDOA]

Wonderful find Des, a book is always a possibility particularly as has been said the growing interest in the war but additionally the growing areas of local and family interest. I have been fortunate in acquiring a few pictures relevant to my grandfathers war experience but for many such research is too much and too expensive. A well produced book would find a good market Im sure in all interest groups.

Roop

[healdav]

Congratulations!

BUT from personal experience I can say that there's nought so queer as folk when it comes to this sort of thing. You may have to use a lot of persuasion - national heritage; deserves a proper preservation, that sort of thing.

I have a copy of a report sent to his wife by a French officer involved in a small skirmish, complete with sketch map and exactly what happened and who was where. He wrote it as a neighbour officer had been killed there.

His grand daughter presented it to the commune where it took place (I was there by chance) but on condition that it was never published as it is a personal family matter!

Fortunately, I persudaded the mayor to let me have a copy on condition that it is not published, and now when I take groups to the site I just happen to have a certain piece of paper in my hand which some people like to look at.

Once again, congratulations

[Desmond7]

I am hopeful of more information tomorrow. Keep all fingers crossed!

Cheers to all,

Des

[BMoorhouse]

Desmond,

I think that publishing the photos in a book is an excellent idea. Photos of this nature are unique and apart from the obvious interest to historians, would no doubt have great significance for anyone who's relatives went over the top that morning - not only for the men of that battalion.

Good luck with it all.

Regards,

Brendon.

[Dragon]

Hello Desmond

How has seeing these pictures changed the way you reflect on what happened at this time and this location?

Gwyn

[Desmond7]

Gwyn - I've been mulling that over ever since!

So ... here goes.

All those who have read about the Somme and specifically the first day will, I'm sure, have some kind of mental picture of what the scene was like.

I'm no exception. I suppose my 'vision' would have been based around the old footage from the 'Great War' TV series and probably the now discredited pictures of men going 'over the top' with one conveniently falling back in to the trench for the camera.

But the 'reality' of seeing the pictures shocked me. There was no Lady Butler style martial glory, no 'Commando' war comic scenes of heroism ... the pictures depict men literally going about their work!

As I've said before, the picture of German prisoners being covered by the Lewis Gun team is the one which truly sticks out in my mind. You have to remember that the guy with the camera is only a few yards behind the gunners who are just below a ridgeline - for want of a better expression.

At this point, the caption states it is of the YCVs in the 3rd German line. So you must track back and realise that the photographer has dashed over no-man's land, probably been involved in fighting in the first two lines and in the midst of all that fear and adrenaline, has the sense to take out his little camera and snap off a few shots.

For that, I have to give him due credit.

Seeing them for the first time really made my head spin - which will sound ridiculous to anyone not bitten by the WW1 'virus' ... but it's true.

It was like having a window opened to something you NEVER ever thought you would see. The pictures offer only a fleeting glimpse of what happened on the Schwaben that day but it was like travelling back in time. It took the photographer a split second to capture the scene on film ... I could spend a long time looking at what he produced and pondering what else he did not have the time or energy or opportunity to record.

Best wishes Des

I have a meeting on this subject tonight and will report on some more of the details. Thanks to all for interest shown. No-one wants to see this document properly presented more than me ... but, as they say, it is a matter which must be 'handled with care' in every sense!

[Desmond7]

OK. Here we go.

Album even better than I thought.

Each pic and page numbered on a sheet of paper at the back.

i.e. 10/25e (or b or c whatever) .... this appears opposite lists of names. From this 'code' you have the names of the individuals in the pictures. From cover to cover!! What a guy.

Would be able to give more but the MICs on Nat. Archive seem to be swamped at the moment. They've even put a site busy warning up! I assume this is a combination of TV's 'Who do we think we are' and the recent Sunday newspaper articles?

Sorry to disappoint, but no pictures available for net use ... YET.

I will shortly be talking to the owners directly to explain where I'm coming from on this topic.

BUT .. don't go yet, because I CAN describe more of the locations/individuals concerned.

If placenames are spelled wrongly .. blame me.

Pics include: Drumhead service at 'Halloy' conducted by Bishop Crozier and Canon King, included are Col. Chichester and Major Mulholland.

Observation balloons being launched at 'Achieu'(?)

Auchonvillers ruins and several shots of flooded trenches; men wearing thigh length waders; trenches more like canals.

Lt. Mayes at Thiepval outside dugout.

Mesnil.

A sentry group at Hamel; One man standing with a rifle cover on his weapon. Three other men further down the trench. Their rifles are uncovered and ready for action.

Viw of the Church at Mesnil - captions states the YCVs took the hands off the clock tower. Whatever reason?

Dug outs at 'Mount Keep' v. good shots of these.

Named soldiers at 'Antrimvillers' - which I assume is a joke name for a section of line. I assume it's called after Co. Antrim in Northern Ireland?

Another pic of John Ewing (the trench mortar guy).

The grace of 15085 Pte. C. Kirkwood. (What lovely - if that is the right word - gravemarlers and little cemeteries these men created for their mates!).

Spectacular overview of German trenches from Aveluy Wood. I found the amount of wooded area incredible! For whatever reason I had just assumed that 'wood' was more or less a pre-1916 concept. I had expected this to be just bare ground with the trees blasted away by shellfire. Not at all - lovely wooded country looking down rom high ground over the German position! White chalk trenchlines weave in and out of each other. Excellent shot.

Several pictures of men down at Ancre River - (not the famous 'bathing' picture most of us will have seen). These are taken from distance - and shells can be seen exploding in the water.

SOMME ACTION PICS - 1. caption: Germans surrendering in their 3rd line trench during the attack on the morning of 1st July. YCVs advancing in extended order.

More detail: Germans 'bunched together' , a few stragglers. YCVs advancing towards them quite calmly. One man even has rifle slung. I've explained about the Lewis GUn team before - this team is flanked by more Tommies. All are facing away from photographer of course. Nothing 'posed about this pic'.

A view taken whilst IN the German 3rd line. This is the 'vision from Hell' picture I described earlier. Murky but in the split second the picture was taken in there are numerous explosions on the ground and in the air! Pretty 'hairy'!

A view over the parapet at Messines. Looks like lovely countryside with nice trees, fields etc. Not what I expected at all.

Various soldiers in trenches at Ploegsteert (4 or 5 pics) of named troops.

The 'Gas Guard' at Red Lodge (what's that) looks like a strongpint?

I am now off to the MICs to see if it has cleared .... back with more.

There are many more pictures but I took special note of the ones above.

Cheers all Des

[Ralph J. Whitehead]

Des,

This just gets better and better. Even if the family is not willing to release these photos for any purpose at least we know they exist and can possibly be saved for future generations.

Now of course I would love to see them now and I eagerly await the outrcome of your efforts, I have faith in you my friend, good luck.

Ralph

[Desmond7]

In the post before Ralph's I had given a taster of the content of the album.

I had included this 'line' - "View of the Church at Mesnil - captions states the YCVs took the hands off the clock tower. Whatever reason?"

I remembered that Billy Bittles had old pictures of post war YCV 'Old Comrades' on a tour of the battlefields they had fought over. So, I decided to give it a look.

To my surprise, there are pictures of these Old Comrades handing back the 'hands' of the clock at Mesnil!!!

Amazing. You can view these pictures at :-

http://www.belfastsomme.com/heroes_ycv4.html

Des - still finding the MIC a pain, but I have identified various personalities. The slog will continue and hopefully I should be able to post an image or two soon.