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Dating a photo - help needed (Transport / Uniform)


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I'm trying to date a photograph on behalf of the local history group to try and settle a couple of arguments which have developed in the past. The picture is the 6th DLI moving through Blackhill however the date is in dispute. The only dated attribution states around 1909 but I'm hoping that there's something in the picture which may help (uniforms etc are not my area).

post-51028-0-30019400-1415989636_thumb.j

Thanks in advance.

Craig

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Are you sure it's the DLI, they look like a mounted unit, Field or Horse Artillery.

John

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At least 4 seem to be wearing medal ribbons .Not sure if man f/r has a rifle?

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Are you sure it's the DLI, they look like a mounted unit, Field or Horse Artillery.

John

Yes, there are some big wheels at the rear - gun carriage?

Mike

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That's the information we have to date - possibly the transport section ?.

Although I've done thousands of hours on the men in the DLI I'm useless with uniforms so any help is appreciated.

Here's another view from the rear.

post-51028-0-22878100-1415991227_thumb.j

Craig

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You can discount gunners as not one of the soldiers is wearing a white lanyard. The wagon is a G.S. wagon, they were ubiquitous for carrying stores and supplies for infantry battalions. They went through a number of redesigns from the 1880s and by 1914 most battalions had the Mark X, there is insufficient detail or perspective to be accurate but I believe the earlier models had the smaller front wheel but happy to be corrected by an expert (LF?).

The mounted soldiers at the front are wearing the 1903 pattern ammunition bandolier and it appears to be the 5 pouch model. I would be surprised if this was the whole movement of troops and is most likely the Quartermasters stores. It looks like a police officer, also a veteran marching alongside the column and apparently talking to I presume the O.C. this section, or could it be the Quartermaster? In any event, if you start with what seems to be known that his is the 6th Bn it must be post 1908.

I don't think the uniform can date the exact year, there will always be room for debate but the rifle bucket with a sling; the uniform all point to a TF unit on the march, I'm curious about the light coloured 'sash' or thin cross belt but can't help with what it represents.

It might be more productive to establish what they were doing there, for example in the local newspapers (pre-war and DORA) carried military intelligence and in August 1909 the DLI summer camp was at Blackhall Rocks involving all Battalions from the County Territorial Association, including the 6th. One of the reports notes the great route march at the camp of seventeen miles from Black Hall Rocks to Grindon where they slept in bivouac, my geography is not so good but I think that's the wrong direction for the photo. What is interesting is the report notes that after a 4a.m. reveille the wagons were loaded up and the troops, led by the 6th Bn and accompanied by the Regimental band marched off. It goes on about 50 waggons proceeded via Castle Eden and Shotton joining the main body later.

The wagons had to get to camp and this may well be the transport for 'G and 'H' Companies 6th Battalion (based at Consett) heading for the Summer Camp at Blackhall Rocks. Presumably local knowledge would indicate the direction past the church and either support this hypothesis or shoot it down in flames.

Ken

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It might be more productive to establish what they were doing there, for example in the local newspapers (pre-war and DORA) carried military intelligence and in August 1909 the DLI summer camp was at Blackhall Rocks involving all Battalions from the County Territorial Association, including the 6th.

That in itself is one of the considerations I was making - there is a film of the 6th DLI ( I have feeling it may be the 1914 camp) which shows them entraining and at camp (The number of arguments I've had over that one is immense) and I do have a theory that this may be part of the movement to a camp (not necessarily the same one). There's not much other accessible information about regarding local movements.

The QM and main stores would be at Bishop Auckland but they would certainly have local stores (probably a few wagons worth I would guess) that would need moving.

The wagons had to get to camp and this may well be the transport for 'G and 'H' Companies 6th Battalion (based at Consett) heading for the Summer Camp at Blackhall Rocks. Presumably local knowledge would indicate the direction past the church and either support this hypothesis or shoot it down in flames.

This picture was very close to the station (if they continued further and turned left they could follow the road around). Not quite the most direct route from the depot but I don't know exactly whereabouts the actual entrance was for. Blackhall Rocks would have been readily accessible by rail (probably with a march at the other end) but then so would most of the other camps with the rail system.

Thanks Ken, you've pretty much supported what I (and others) tend to think - The local history group have the pictures in their archive and they're going to have a quick look to see if they have any more. The key point I've been trying to confirm is that it's likely pre-war (which is suggested by the dates - although I believe this could be wrong but I've not proof).

Craig

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The 6th Bn DLI, being a TF battalion, might not have been issued with the new Pattern 1908 infantry equipment until some years later, so I don't think the bandolier equipment rules them out. I'm glad to see confirmation of my opinion on another thread about the GS Wagon!

Ron

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The 6th Bn DLI, being a TF battalion, might not have been issued with the new Pattern 1908 infantry equipment until some years later, so I don't think the bandolier equipment rules them out. I'm glad to see confirmation of my opinion on another thread about the GS Wagon!

Ron

I think that was my point, on the evidence available for the reasons you give I don't think it's possible to use the uniform or other equipment to date this picture as accurately as the original post seems to suggest is required, i.e to settle a'couple of arguments'. I think it is possible to agree with the assertion it is the 6th DLI which must date it post 1908 and the formation of the TF, nothing to do with the army accoutrements and uniform.

Craig, I only looked in the newspaper archive for 1909, not successive years and I agree Craig, the main body almost certainly went by train to camp, but the transport would have to make it's own way.

I find the policeman intriguing, if that is what he is, the pill box type hat and elaborate tunic was usually worn by senior officers, working locally it might be possible to identify the date of his uniform but that would be a different forum!

Ken

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I find the policeman intriguing, if that is what he is, the pill box type hat and elaborate tunic was usually worn by senior officers, working locally it might be possible to identify the date of his uniform but that would be a different forum!

I had a feeling he was possibly a police officer but the uniform seemed possibly too elaborate (it seems to be a darker colour then khaki so police or a military dress uniform ?)

There's certainly a cap badge and something on the left arm just below the elbow,

Craig

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