Mid Argyll Youth Project - Lochgilphead 65

[Raymond]

Hi - this is my first post therefore please excuse if I have posted to the wrong forum. I am a community education worker based in Lochgilphead on the West Coast of Scotland. My youth forum are doing a project researching the 65 names of the fallen of WW1 on our village war memorial. We have managed to trace info on 62 of the named however despite the young folk spending hours in the council archives we have still come up short. I am also looking for any pictures or medals that we can use to make a commemorative booklet. I was trying to find info on HMT Grenadier, when I found access to the GWF and I noticed that someone had mentioned that they were related to John Bain who drowned in 1917 while the trawler was minesweeping. John Bain is one of the names on our war memorial. I think the two members were Ian Sussex and Lucia who were blogging each other. Would it be possible to upload what we have discovered to date and perhaps someone may have further info. Also struggling with a Canadian and a chap called Robert Clerk who we have found no notification of on any site.

Sorry for the length of the notice, I have so many questions to ask.

Cheers

Raymond

[sotonmate]

Raymond

Welcome to Forum !

You should post the name of the Canadian,or go to collectionscanada.ca where they have now some digitised service records.etc. I am sure that you will get some help,but if you have any more info please add it.

Captain and Adjutant Robert Vere CLERK,of 1 Battalion,attached to 1/7 Battalion Cameronians (156 Infantry Brigade of 52 Division),killed in action at Gully Ravine,Krithia (Gallipoli) aged 31 on 28 Jun 1915. No known grave,remembered on the Helles Memorial at Cannakale.

Landed at Gallipoli only 2 weeks before he was killed. Resided at Shepton Mallett,Somerset,son of an Indian Army Officer,he was born in India.

[Raymond]

Hi - cheers for that info, we have info on R.V.Clerk however the R Clerk on the memorial was a private in the Highland Light Infantry. Just wondering if he survived the war however passed before the memorial was erected and his name was nominated to go on the stone. I'll have a look at the Canadian forum.

Cheers

Raymond

[rolt968]

Hi - cheers for that info, we have info on R.V.Clerk however the R Clerk on the memorial was a private in the Highland Light Infantry. Just wondering if he survived the war however passed before the memorial was erected and his name was nominated to go on the stone. I'll have a look at the Canadian forum.

Cheers

Raymond

It's worth a look at Scotlandspeople for the war years an two or three years immediately afterwards. There were men who were invalided out and then died at home.

R.

[Terence Munson]

Raymond,

John Bain's service record can be downloaded for £3.30p here: Link

Terry

Edit

ps. I think after one more post you should be able to send a PM to the two members mentioned in your first post.

[Cameronian Volunteer]

From what you say you have probably already found Private Ralph Clerk , #35079 in Highland Light Infantry.

[ernest james]

Hi

I suspect that you've asked the question in this forum because many of the men on the memorial were fishermen/seamen, either merchant marine, Royal Navy, or Royal Naval Reserve.

If you could send me a list of the seamen I will let you know how you can find further details using online sources. For the Lochgilphead men that survived there is the chance of a photograph in the 1918-21 CR10 record cards.

best wishes

ernestjames

[wightspirit]

Raymond

HM Trawler Grenadier was part of the Auxiliary Patrol Force. In February 1917 she was based in Portsmouth and was the first vessel on the scene following the disastrous collision between the SS Darro and the RMS Mendi, which sank with the loss of about 650 men. The service record of John Bain will tell you if he was serving on Grenadier at the time of the collision, 21 February 1917 (but may not say if he was aboard at the time or not). If he was, the account of the scene of the disaster is obtainable from the National Archives (I can help further if you require it). The Grenadier and another trawler, the Borneo, were minesweeping together in June 1917 off the Sussex coast, when Borneo sank after striking a mine with the loss of 9 men. Again, Bain's service record should show if he was present at this sinking. I can't help with how he came to meet his end by drowning on 21 September that year. I have not been able to locate a photo of the Grenadier.

Dave W

[Raymond]

Thanks everyone for the help. I have downloaded John Bain's war record, however I am still having trouble finding any reference to Robert Clerk private HLI. I have looked up Ralph Clerk with service number given but I cant seem to find any reference to him either. I'll need to sit down with my youth group and get them to highlight what sites they have used, If I am looking for references / pictures of ships etc will this be the correct site to ask for help. HMS Essonite was one I was looking for, just off the top of my head, I have left the file with all the info in the classroom which I can't get until Monday.

I have loaded up the 65 names on our war memorial,

Thanks again everyone for your assistance

Yours in research

Raymond

WWI ROLL OF HONOUR Lochgilphead 65 Updated List.docx

[jaywalker]

I looked on SDGW and typed in born in Lochgilphead, there is a Pte Robert Clark, 2nd Batt Royal Scots Fusiliers, KIA 23/4/17.

I wouldnt be surprised if this didnt turn out to be your man

[Raymond]

Thanks Jaywalker, that's him, he was from a family of blacksmiths on the Poltalloch estate owned by the Malcolm family, story is the farmers of the area did not pay the family for the work they had done, so they packed up shop and moved lock stock and barrel to Inveraray where they now own most of the business in the town. Clerk is a well know family name in Inveraray and one of the class room assistants in the school is a Clerk, Anyway, Clerk is pronounced Clark and as I am finding whilst doing this research is that a number of names are spelled wrong on the memorial stone. We spent ages looking for Nivin MacVicar and after painstakingly prowling over records in the archivists office we discovered the name should have read Nevin McVicar, which we found.

Cheers

Raymond

[jaywalker]

Hi Raymond, Have sent you a PM

[Old Owl]

Hello Raymond,

I note your interest in the Lochgilphead Memorial and request for information and photographs. I have two frames relating to Captain John Dingwall Carswell, of the 8th Bn The Black Watch who was killed at Longueval, France on 14th July,1916. I wonder if you would be interestaed in seeing some photgraphs of the frames? One frame contains a portrait of Captain Carswell in uniform taken at the Loch side, below which are his three medals. The second frame contains his Memorial Scroll beneath which is the King's Letter. I have owned these frames for almost 20 years having purchased them in the mid 90's.

Interestingly Captain Carswell, who was married to Catherine Cameron in South Africa on 23rd March,1908, had two children, the first, a boy, was born on 5/11/14 and named, John Robertson Cameron Dingwall Carswell; the second child, a daughter, was born on 26/9/16 following his death at Longueval on 14/7/16, and was named rather poignantly, Helen Allen Longueval Carswell.

If you PM me an email address then I can send you some photos.

Robert

[ernest james]

Hi Raymond

Only four seamen on the Memorial and it appears that you've identified John Bain and Nevin McVicar (because of the 'Essonite' comment).

I couldn't find a believable match for Archibald Campbell but I suspect that John Mitchell was a master in the Merchant Marine and was lost with the 'Cabotia'. There also appears to be a ww1 Mercantile Marine Medal card for him.

I did a check on CR10 record cards from 1918-21 for Lochgilphead and Ardrishaig born merchant seamen. These cards include a passport style photo of the seaman and I've used them in the past for exhibitions in coastal communities. I've found they are great in encouraging feedback from local people.

I found 53 cards for Lochgilphead born and 29 cards for Ardrishhaig born seamen.

Come back to me if you want more information.

best wishes

ernestjames

[Raymond]

Ernestjames, thanks for the info. it would be great to see any pictures relating to the seamen of Lochgilphead and Ardrishaig. I have info on James / John mitchell RNR who died on 26/9/17 skipper on HM Drifter 'Ocean Star'. The CWGC have him as James Mitchell.

Archibald Campbell, RNVR 13/11/16 Clyde Z/509. Howe Bn. R.N Div buried at Ancore Cemetery, Beaumont-Hamel

Cheers

Raymond

[Raymond]

Hi - looking for any information on the SS Commonwealth or Archibald Campbell died 19th Feb 1918

Lochgilphead 65 youth project

cheers

Raymond

[Ron Abbott]

Archibald Campbell, d 19 Feb 1918.

CWGC records that he was born in Glasgow and aged 49 at time of death. Mentions that he's interred (or commemorated?) at Flamborough Churchyard. Mentions him drowning as result of submarine attack on the ship.

However, I'm wondering whether that Archibald Campbell is your man? CWGC records that man as having been an 'Able Seaman'.

My reason is that it is a reasonably common name especially in Argyllshire, and there was indeed a man of the same name who was born in Lochgilphead in 1870 and who was in the Merchant Marine and who lived in Glasgow during the 1890s if not later.

Furthermore, your war memorial in Lochgilphead records Archibald Campbell as 2nd Officer, RNR and not as 'Able Seaman'.

The one born in Lochgilphead's application for a 'Mate's Certificate' and a copy of the certificate can be viewed for free via ancestry.com.

It was issued on 17th Mar 1893 at which time he had provided his address as 77 West XXXXX (can't read it), Glasgow. Ships he served on prior to the application are mentioned. As of 1895 he appears to have resided at 47 Gilbert Street, Glasgow....at which time he obtained his 'Masters' Certificate'.

In 1898 he also obtained a Masters Certifcate for 'foreign going steamships'. In the 1890s he sailed aboard vessels called 'Agate' and 'Nugget' registered in Glasgow.

That Archibald Campbell was born in Lochgilphead on 2nd Jan 1870 to Charles and Margaret Campbell. Or maybe they are the same man and the CWGC has the place of birth (Glasgow) wrong?

At any rate, the one born in Lochgilphead is recorded in the 1871 census. His mother was recorded as Dr. Margret McLavish but elsewhere as Margaret McTavish.....her maiden name. I had some credits left on Scotlands People and viewed his record of birth and again the same two persons are named as his parents.

If it is him that is of interest to you, his father is recorded as being a herring fisherman and he had brothers called Neil, John, Charles, James and Alexander. Their address is recorded as Union Street, Lochgilphead. The parents are also found in the 1881 and 1901 census with a more specific address at 45 Union Street, Lochgilphead.

Just for your info, there are death records in Scotland for 21 men called Archibald Campbell who died in 1918, nine recorded in 'service returns' and two in 'Marine returns'. Unfortunately the latter are for men too young in age and with one exception, the 'Service returns' are all the wrong age as well (if based on the 49 years recorded by CWGC).

As for SS Commonwealth, it's been mentioned on the forum before:-

 

The war memorial in Lochgilphead records 'Archibald Campbell' as having been 2nd Officer RNR....and not 'Able Seaman'. The man that I mention above, could presumably have been the man commemorated on the war memorial as he had his Masters Certificate. Maybe someone else who has a good knowledge of naval/maritime matters could better advise?

Don't want to go any further in case it is the wrong Archibald Campbell.

I suppose the big question is how certain you are that the Archibald Campbell recorded on the Lochgilphead War Memorial is the man of the same name who was on the SS Commonwealth?

[Raymond]

Ron - thanks for the information, I will take it into the school and let the class decide on their next move. We are having a terrible time tracking down Names of the Lochgilphead 65 as the spelling is wrong or their rank is wrong.

Kindest regards

Raymond