Pals Battalions

[bclivingmuseum]

Hi All,

I just wondered if anyone knew why Pals battalions didnt exist in certain areas. For example Birmingham had a pals battalion but just a few miles down the road in the Black Country non were formed, does any one have any ideas?

Thanks

[David_Underdown]

Technically Pals Battalions were regarded by the War Office as locally raised units (if you google or do a forum search you should find a complete list). Some places raised other types of units rather than infantry battalions, such as artillery brigades, for instance around me, the boroughs of Wandsworth and Battersea each raised a whole infantry abttalion, but Wimbledon and some of the other local authorities went for artillery instead. Fewer men were erquired for the artilelry units. Sometimes it depended how many men tehy thougth could be raised, and whether it would have an adverse impact on industry required for the war effort.

[brianmorris547]

Hi

"Your Country Needs You" by Martin Middlebrook describes how the British Army expanded from 6 to 60 plus Divisions and covers this topic. Should be at your local Library.

Brian

Edited 14 July , 2014 by brianmorris547

[Bernard_Lewis]

The mayor of Swansea launched an appeal for volunteers for a 'town' battalion and prominent local men underwrote the initial costs. I think patriotism and civic pride obviously played a part. Though enlistment was slower than had been hoped (many Swansea men had already joined other units) a 'town' (pals) battalion was eventually formed.

Bernard

[tony paley]

Much of the publicity and books etc. regarding the 'Pals Battalions' relate to Infantry units. Many Boroughs and Cities raised Heavy Batteries. 8 were raised in London and many others around the country. These batteries were part of the RGA and were never part of Divisional Artillery, being included in Heavy Artillery Groups/Brigades. 152 (Hackney) Heavy Battery has a site that provides a lot of interesting information about such a unit. Unfortunately these units do not appear in many of the books about the 'New Army'. Details are on the sister site 'The Long Long Trail' and other links showing the origins of these 'New Army' RGA. units.

Tony P

[Terry Carter]

From a Birmingham paper from 21 September 1914

[brianmorris547]

Bclm

Bolton would appear to be the same. The town had a Territorial Infantry Battalion (5 Loyal North Lancs) and a Territorial Artillery Brigade (3 East Lancs Brigade) at the start of the war. Both started to recruit reserve Units shortly after war was declared. In addition to this Territorial recruiting the Bolton Evening News of 08/02/1915 reported that Lord Kitchener had asked Lord Derby to raise two Brigades of Field Artillery with Ammunition Columns plus a Heavy Battery. On 01/03/1915 the BEN reported that the Field Artillery Batteries were to be known as Comrade's Batteries with one each being recruited from Liverpool, Preston, Bolton, Manchester, Blackburn, Warrington, Wigan and St Helens. The Bolton Battery was later identified as D Battery, 148 Brigade. These Units were the County Palatine Royal Artillery. County Palatine R.E. Units were raised as well. The War Diary for CRE 30 Div (WO 95/2320) contains the Historical Record of the 30 Div County Palatine Engineers. It explains that shortly after the outbreak of war the Manchester Recruiting Committee, working in cooperation with Lord Derby, were asked to raise a number of Service Battalions for the Liverpool and Manchester Regiments. On 14/01/1915 Lord Derby and the Committee were asked to consider the question of raising RA and RE Units to make up a complete Division with these Service Battalions. On 09/02/1915 it was agreed that Lord Derby would deal with RA recruiting and the MRC with RE recruiting. The BEN reported that Bolton was not to have a Pals Battalion but did not give a reason, although recruits to 4/5 LNL were shown in the BEN as enlisting into the "Pals Battalion".

[8055Bell]

Brian,

Here's a recruitment advert for the Manchester Pallatine Engineers 202nd Fd Sqn & Artillery on 21/3/15. http://images.manchester.gov.uk/web/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=3900&reftable=ecatalogue&refirn=3645. The RE men served with the Manchester Pals. Not sure about RFA.

Tim

[kenf48]

Initially the War Office maintained control of recruitment and one Division each for the First and Second New Armies were to be created by the six Military Commands in the UK. Recruitment to the New Armies across the country was uneven, rural areas struggled to fill the active service Battalions and there were some imaginative schemes to bring them up to strength. At the same time most market towns had a drill hall and many men presented themselves there for enlistment in the local TF unit, although the local link was very important individual men saw pros and cons in both forms of enlistment.

The 6th South Staffordshire Regiment (TF) were based at Wolverhampton and raised two battalions (one initially for home service) and a reserve. A similar situation existed in Walsall (5th South Staffs) and in both locations there were also Staffordshire Yeomanry Squadrons and at Wolverhampton an RFA and medical unit. In Dudley and Halesowen there were Companies of the 7th Bn Worcestershire Regiment, although in September it was reported 650 men had volunteered for ‘Lord Kitchener’s Army’.

Although the War Office devolved some control locally, for example to Lord Derby in Liverpool, the demand to raise local Service units came initially from the large cities, the Mayors and Corporations of London, Manchester and Birmingham were the first to receive authority from the War Office in August 1914.

Soon other towns joined in the demand to raise ‘local’ battalions and by September 1914 a number of individuals and organisations,including several Territorial Force Associations and three MPs, had been granted authority to raise local Battalions. In all 115 service Battalions were raised locally of which eighty-three were begun in 1914. The Midlands raised seven, the same number as Scotland, overall the New Army raised some 557 service and reserve Battalions while the TF raised 568 before the introduction of conscription. (A Nation in Arms Beckett and Simpson)

Walsall, mentioned above might prove an interesting case study for the Black Country. On September 12 1914 the Birmingham Mail reported the Mayor had received approval in the form of a telegram 'from Lord Kitchener' and was in consultation with the Mayors of West Bromwich and Wednesbury, (what often happened in the smaller conurbations was that local Companies were formed to make up the Battalions) and it was hoped to form ' a special company or companies of athletes'. The proposal was originally for 'a non-manual workers' battalion. This gives another indication of the motivation for some 'local' battalions reflecting the class structure of the time.

At the same time the TF 'Walsall Battalion' the 1/5th South Staffs had been brought up to strength, 1,020 officers and men, and was training in Luton, as soon as they had left there was a demand to create a reserve battalion of over 500 men to enable them to go overseas. It seems a similar situation to that in Swansea described above with the War Office, the TF and the Mayor all vying for recruits.

Ken

[Terry Carter]

More info concerning the Black Country Chums

[Terry Carter]

Yet more info

[Terry Carter]

more

[kenf48]

Unfortunately in spite of their efforts it seems the 10th (Service) Battalion South Staffordshire Regiment never reached the requisite strength/fitness to go overseas and was initially posted to Tavistock in Devon, (where the local newspapers reported a good relationship with the local police and people!) eventually becoming a training/reserve Battalion. The Territorials serving with some distinction on the Western Front.

See also http://www.1914-1918.net/sstaffs.htm

Ken

[brianmorris547]

Tim

A similar picture appears on p 70 of Martin Middlebrook's book "Your Country Needs You". It shows 25th Bn Manchester Regiment marching past Lord K with the advertising boards for the CPRE and CPRA prominent. Your picture provides a date. A blank copy of the CPRE poster is in Appendix 3 to the Historical Record of the County Palatine Engineers in WO 95/2320. I am struggling to find photographs of the CPRE. There is a picture of 201 FC in Michael Stedman's "Manchester Pals", the only others that I have found are in Morecambe Library Local Studies being an original photograph of the entire 30 Div CPRE on parade on a football field and an original of 202 FC on parade on Morecambe Beach. (They did their initial training in Morecambe). There is also a picture in the Morecambe Visitor dated 21/07/1915 of REs in the Bathing Pool at Bare. I would be interested in any others if anyone can help. The Bolton Evening News of 12/10/1915 reported that Lord Derby had asked more men to come forward for the County Palatine Artillery to serve in 30 and 32 Divisions.

Brian

[Mark Hone]

As hinted at in several posts on this thread the concentration on New Army 'Pals' battalions has led many people to overlook the already existing Territorial Force units which had very specific local identities. To take a random example, 1/5th Lancashire Fusiliers, which took part in the Gallipoli campaign with 42nd Division, was made up almost entirely of men recruited from the immediate Bury area with brothers, workmates and school friends of long standing all serving together. In many ways the TF were 'more pals than the Pals'.

[8055Bell]

Hi Mark,

I've been thinking about this point too. There's a bit of a theme I've been developing of pals within Pals:-

The 1st/6th Manchesters were certainly friends as I found a big group that had gone to Warehouseman & Clerks Orphans School. This made them almost family and pals from the same boarding school even thought they weren't serving in the City Bttn.

Have a look at the Officers in the 16th/17th Manchesters and we find a big group of pupils and teachers linked with St Bees & Merchiston Castle school.

I've also thought about the group of about 70 men from Berkshire who found themselves serving together in the 2nd Manchester Pals. They must have had common links and connections as a further group of pals within Pals.

The good people of the Manchester Police Museum have identified a big group of men who seemed to have become the backbone of NCOs in the City Battalions.

Stepping back to the City Battalions we had a whole Platoon of C Pln of 17th who had been clerks and warehousman with the same company before enlisting. They were certainly pals in the Pals.

Any thoughts on similar groups would be welcome.

Tim

ps Brian - Thanks for reminding me of the great pics in Michael Stedman's book. I need to re-re-read it again.

[John_Hartley]

Many of 6th Manchesters were, indeed, friends. Their traditional recruitment was amongst the white collar employees of the major city centre firms, together with the likes of accountants and stockbrokers. Many moved in the same social circles. When war was declared, many of Stockport's keen sportsmen - almost exclusively lacrosse players and their friends - got together and tried to join the battalion, where they knew many folk. Initially rejected, they were accepted at the end of August and went to Egypt with the battalion in September.

There were then a goodly number of city centre employees who had also tried to join the 6th Battalion but had not been able to, as it was now "full". They went on to join the Pals when they were formed at the beginning of September, along with many more of their colleagues who were trying to enlist for the first time.

As a more general comment, I would entirely agree with Mark's observation about "more pals than the Pals", in so far as it relates to Territorial units. The specific geographical nature of recruitment means it is inevitable that many worked together and, presumably socialised. I'm currently researching 6th Cheshires - the territorials from Stockport and surrounding Cheshire towns. It's early stages yet but it already appears that it's make-up at the outbreak was largely working class men, working in the town's cotton mills and hatting industry.

[kenf48]

As a more general comment, I would entirely agree with Mark's observation about "more pals than the Pals", in so far as it relates to Territorial units. The specific geographical nature of recruitment means it is inevitable that many worked together and, presumably socialised. I'm currently researching 6th Cheshires - the territorials from Stockport and surrounding Cheshire towns. It's early stages yet but it already appears that it's make-up at the outbreak was largely working class men, working in the town's cotton mills and hatting industry.

As in Walsall where the 1/5th were known as the 'Walsall Battalion' they were referred to locally as the 'Stockport Battalion.

The advertisement at post 12 above shows they were intending to recruit 'non manual' workers altogether a better class of recruit to the New Army Battalions.

Although the term 'Pals' was used in the press I'm not sure it gained traction with the War Office or down south, I can't see the Stockbrokers or Sportsmen taking kindly to being called 'Pals', here in Sussex they were 'Lowthers Lambs'. The 23rd Royal Fusiliers was intended for 'middle and upper class men' but unfortunately had to resort to some from the lower classes to make up the numbers!

This was one of the problems with local battalions in that the enthusiasm of the sponsor did not always match the potential recruits so the 15th Royal Scots (Edinburgh) had to bus in potential recruits from Manchester. By 1915 the idea, like the Bantams also popular in the public imagination had run its course and the War Office ceased to devolve recruiting locally and as is now known the unforeseen consequence played itself out on the Somme.

Ken

[John_Hartley]

This was one of the problems with local battalions in that the enthusiasm of the sponsor did not always match the potential recruits so the 15th Royal Scots (Edinburgh) had to bus in potential recruits from Manchester.

There's a double header of a lack of enthusiasm here. The Manchester lads who ended up with 15th Royal Scots had been trying to form a "Manchester Scottish" battalion but not enough takers.

[kenf48]

Off topic in that it was not a 'local' Battalion but the one that makes me smile is the 8th Battalion East Surrey which was formed mainly from a single trainload of recruits mostly from Suffolk and South Wales. (unpublished MSS in IWM cited by Sheffield and Simpson)

Ken

[8055Bell]

I don't want to be contentious but the 8th East Surreys made the Regiment famous by Capt Neville kicking the footballs into no mans land. We then here they weren't from Surrey.....

[kenf48]

Not contentious simply illustrates the point that the Army could, and often did move blocks of men, especially New Army recruits around the country to other units when local Depots became overcrowded. The 8th Bn East Surrey was part of K2. A trainload is perhaps an extreme example of this type of movement but there are plenty of other instances.

The East Surreys also had two 'local' Battalions (Bermondsey and Wandsworth). The Mayor of Wandsworth boasted that in just nine weeks from June 1915 to August 1915 when the Battalion was handed over to the military the Borough had raised six companies or 1500 men.

Ken

[MIDMED]

Not contentious simply illustrates the point that the Army could, and often did move blocks of men, especially New Army recruits around the country to other units when local Depots became overcrowded. The 8th Bn East Surrey was part of K2. A trainload is perhaps an extreme example of this type of movement but there are plenty of other instances. The East Surreys also had two 'local' Battalions (Bermondsey and Wandsworth).

Ken

Hello Ken

some years ago I visited the grave in France of an in-laws relative , one of two lads who being born and bred in Bermondsey had enlisted with the 7th E,Surrey Regt during the early part of the war, one lad survived the Great war the second was killed on the 1st of July 1916 with 7th E Surreys, while still in the UK I took the opportunity to chat with an elderly family member who had in her youth ( between the wars) known of the boy that had come home, she suddenly referred to the two lads as joining the Bermondsey pals, I was a little taken back by her reference to the Bermondsey pals having never heard these two service battalions referred to as pals battalions before, she was adamant it had always been so. if her recollections are correct the implication is that family members of the men that formed or were formed into local service battalions wether by public subscription or otherwise had referred to their locally raised battalions as pals and pal battalions, I had just assumed the term pals was not contemporary great War jargon and little used post war by the general public certainly in reference to London service battalions, the term ‘”pals” its correct use still something i’m unsure of today many years later ???

A sad foot note the second lad was killed near Bermondsey with his wife and child by a v rocket late on during the Second World War.

[kenf48]

MM

As far a the East Surrey Regiment is concerned three Service Battalions were raised by the War Office, these were the 7th K1;8th K2 and 9th K3, in addition two Reserve Battalions were formed.(See LLT) The three Service Battalions were all raised at the Depot/Training unit at Kingston-on-Thames, they were not 'local' or 'Pals' Battalions, however their recruitment catchment could easily include Bermondsey so someone presenting themselves for recruitment there would get a rail warrant and be sent to Kingston. They may have included a number of men from the Borough but the 7th was not a 'Pals' Battalion according to the War Office.

However in 1915 (according to the Daily Mirror in response to the sinking of the Lusitania) the Mayor of Bermondsey sought authority to raise a 'local' Battalion which was the 'Bermondsey Pals', this was the 12th (Service) Battalion (Bermondsey). The Mirror ran a photo series showing the 'Bermondsey Lusitania Battalion' going from civvies to khaki in days which was not strictly accurate. The fact was that recruiting was in decline and the War Office approached Metropolitan Boroughs with a view to raising 'local' battalions. The essential distinction was that the WO gave authority to an individual/corporation to raise a battalion locally which was 'handed over' when up to strength. In 'Kitchener's Army:the raising of the New Armies' Peter Simkins notes there was a financial saving for the War Office as they were funded locally until that point.

This earlier thread discusses at some length recruiting patterns in South London

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=186141

As noted in that thread local pride was very strong so I've no doubt the idea of all men from Bermondsey serving in 'the Pals' became a popular myth in the post war decades. If they enlisted in the first rush August/September 1914 they were not in the Bermondsey 'Pals'.

Ken

[MIDMED]

As noted in that thread local pride was very strong so I've no doubt the idea of all men from Bermondsey serving in 'the Pals' became a popular myth in the post war decades. If they enlisted in the first rush August/September 1914 they were not in the Bermondsey 'Pals'.

Ken

Hello Ken

Thanks very much for the reply mate great stuff, however the factual content may have had little meaning i suspect to the people who gone now were there during and after those heady days in 1914, an interesting aspect from an old woman in the 1990's who had been a little girl on the home front and called all the lads "pals"

The term pals and pals battalions had had two underlying and profound emotional connotations for this very old woman, they had remained a constant in her thoughts and matured during the years that had rolled by since 1919, the first a deep sadness at the fate of so many local volunteers including boys from her own family who had joined the new army for the duration never to be seen again, the sense of loss was invoked by tragic recollections recalled in bitter war time accounts from family members, accounts of poor handling by incompetents that cost so many life’s in so very many instances, the second was a sympathy one can perhaps best describe as a type of recognition of the social in-justice experienced by some veterans " the pals" from London and in this case Bermondsey who had enlisted and gone to war, then later home again suffering to a less or greater degree from the carnage and the effects of military life on campaign, having to enduring a lack of compassion and welfare that can only be described as utterly scandalous ("scandalous" my word not hers) , Pride of course yes, but also a sense of ambiguous shame was present silent but defiantly present.

Very best

MM