Visiting National Archives for the 1st time; any advice please?

[hamishmck]

Evening all,

I am planning my first and very much overdue trip to the NA to try to copy 6 army records of my family.

I am travelling down on a Saturday (work mon to Fri) and my train from Preston Lancs gets me to Euston at 1.12pm and the NA shuts at 5pm.

I dont have a readers card obviously so cant pre order the records. It takes approx 45 mins to get to NA from Euston so IN THEORY;

Arrive NA at 2pm, apply and complete Readers card application, Locate the 6 records, copy/photograph/scan whichever and be thrown out at 5pm with hopefully 6 army records from ww1. IS this possible or am i dreaming?

any guidance would be most useful. cheers Hamish

[sotonmate]

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/visit/before-you-visit.htm

If you can't get the 0958 it might be a bit tight if you get delayed (what sport is around on the day ) and you may be a bit optimistic about eta Kew from Euston,I would guess nearer 1430 arrival.

Even so give half an hour for reader's ticket and you could be ordering by 1500 or so. Have the file numbers ready before the day,if you need help ask here,and you can order the firsts three. To save time later,once your first three are in your box,order the next three which will be retrieved whilst you are working on the others,it saves time. With luck you should manage it.

[hamishmck]

thanks both for this info. Glad to know that i am not alone in not liking strictly as well.

[W.J.Caughey]

Hello Hamish, here's a post i had a few months ago, in the end never made it to Kew but very helpful advice from forum members.

Hope you enjoy."What to expect at Kew"

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=191343&hl=

Walter

[Tom Tulloch-Marshall]

Evening all,

I am planning my first and very much overdue trip to the NA to try to copy 6 army records of my family.

I am travelling down on a Saturday (work mon to Fri) and my train from Preston Lancs gets me to Euston at 1.12pm and the NA shuts at 5pm.

I dont have a readers card obviously so cant pre order the records. It takes approx 45 mins to get to NA from Euston so IN THEORY;

Arrive NA at 2pm, apply and complete Readers card application, Locate the 6 records, copy/photograph/scan whichever and be thrown out at 5pm with hopefully 6 army records from ww1. IS this possible or am i dreaming?

any guidance would be most useful. cheers Hamish

I'm sorry to have to say this Hamish - but travelling from Lancashire, on a Saturday, by public transport, without a reader's ticket, and with no previous experience of TNA - anybody encouraging you to do that ... I don't know what to say. It's a daft idea.

sorry - Tom

[WilliamRev]

It sounds as if you are trying to cram a huge amount into one day. Can you really get from Euston to Kew in 45 mins? I used to live in London and I would allow an hour and a half for this.

Getting your readers ticket takes at least half an hour or so (because you have to take a little on-line exam to show that you have read the instructions and rules properly - make sure that you have read these online before you make your trip) - longer if there is a queue. Then getting to know how the archive works, how to order documents etc, will take a while. Documents can take 45 mins to arrive once ordered. Then the big reading room is dead-silent, you sometimes have to handle delicate documents very slowly and gently, and when you walk to the copiers (you may have to queue for one for a few minutes) you can't hurry. It isn't a quick process..

So you might get to see and copy a few documents before 5pm (sometimes you order a document and find that it is a dozen pages or more when you were expecting one or two).

But if you do all this once then you'll be equipped for a return visit in due course when you'll be able to get some serious research done.

William

Edit: P.S I don't mean to sound this gloomy - it is a wonderful place, getting the ticket etc isn't hard or stressful, and you'll have a fascinating day - only don't expect to get much research done on such a short visit.

[spof]

Hamish

What, exactly, do you men by "6 army records of my family"? There may be alternatives such as someone already holding the records, a regimental museum etc. With the cost of the train and Tube tickets, it may be cheaper to hire a researcher.

Having said that, it is still a marvellous experince holding the actual papers and would recommend the visit if only so you can get the ticket and be able to pre-order next time. One thing not mentioned is that last orders are at 4pm so, as Sotonmate says, you'd need to order the next set of 3 as soon as the first lot arrive.It takes me about 45 minutes to get to Kew from Caaring Cross then allow another 15 minutes to get there and find a locker etc so even a 2.30 arrival is optimistic getting from Euston although you'll probably be better off gettingthe OVerground and changing at Willesdaen Junction rather than the Tube

There is also a Travelodge hotel nearby which regularly offers cheap deals and it may be worth considering travelling on Friday night.

Finally, post on the Forum Pals board when you're visiting and there may be other members there at the same time to say hello.

Glen

[James]

Hamish,

Here is another thread about visiting kew with lots of advice:

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=195912&hl=

As others have said its a big ask, Could you travel overnight? take bus/coach down then travel to kew in morning?

Make sure you select a table with a camera stand - all cameras even small digital ones can be screwed into the holder, which means that you can use both hands to turn pages, hold open documents etc etc greatly speeding up the processing time.

You will get side tracked its like a child going into a toy shop.

James

[John_Hartley]

It's a daft idea.

Hamish

I'm afraid I agree with Tom. There may be transport difficulties, there may be delays in getting your readers ticket, you can only order three documents at a time, etc , etc. There really isnt likely to be time. If you really need to visit and can only do it on a Saturday, then I'd suggest travelling down after work on Friday and staying overnight nearby.

When you say you're wanting to copy six records, exactly what records are you searching for - officers files, other ranks documents, medal rolls, war diaries? There may be other ways round your project.

John

[sotonmate]

Hamish

Strictly what ?

[Sue Light]

Some of us clearly prefer to ponder on the more substantial aspects of human achievement rather than the ephemeral terpsichorean antics of a disparate assemblage of chattering class nonentities for the entertainment of the slack-jawed mouth-breathing masses.

And some of us prefer to do both ...

[Sue Light]

Even I have to admit that I can't do both at the same time - the cha-cha-cha wreaks havoc with a database.

[aradgick]

I see I'm not the only one who will find anything to do, rather than sit through 'Strictly Come Prancing'

Andrewr

[sotonmate]

Apologies for causing a drift from the matter in hand,I really should stick to my rules of discipline here and not become a member of the chatterati. One day I even wrote in Skindles.

Thank you Mr S for the eloquent explanation.

Copied to Mrs S.

[StuartAB]

I made my first visit to the NA earlier this month. I wouldn't rule out the proposed itinerary, as long as the OP realises it might not work, a few comments:

It's a long tube journey. Check actual tube timetables.

It's a short walk.

If it's quiet, registering is less than half a hour.

Then ASK FOR HELP with booking a desk in the main reading room. If you have a camera, get one marked for camera use.

Using a camera is quicker than photocopying. They even have camera stands with tripod-like bolts on which to mount the camera.

ASK FOR HELP with ordering stuff. The staff are very good.

I arrived with lots of general archive use experience, but every place is different. But the NA is a very efficient system. I found with a camera mounted on the stand, I could take a photo every 10 seconds, while handling the source material very gently.

Bottom line is how voluminous is the stuff you want to see.

Stuart

[annswabey]

I would agree, being a regular visitor to Kew, that trying to cram it into a few hours is very optimistic. Which records are they? "Other ranks" Army records are available online, which you can do from home or perhaps the local library, if you don't have an Ancestry subscription. If Officers records you need to know which refs you need to order - poorly indexed so you might have to order a few and bearing in mind that you can only order 3 at a time, you might run out of time.

[hamishmck]

Hello to everyone who has offered advice & guidance and many thanks to you all.

Many thanks to the links too.

I think it is back to the drawing board for the planing of this trip before i embark.

I can however answer some of the questions.

The 6 records i seek are 5 officers 1 private. I am after their military service records.

In terms of size, i know one has 66 pages.

I dont have a lot of time now at 10.45pm but will give a fuller answer later with more time.

again many thanks ,

[Coldstreamer]

There is so much potential there and when you keep finding "new" things you simply won't have enough time.

When you have been a few times you become more efficient and can plan, first time is just finding way around

[spof]

The private's service record (if it survives) will be available on Ancestry. Your local library may well have access toit if you don't subscribe. The officers' records will be in either WO 339 or WO 374. If you post their names and details, we can help find out if hte record still survives and a TNA reference number.

[Gardenerbill]

I have just posted a description of my first visit to the National Archives in the Blogs section. I arrived at around 11:30 and left with 193 war diary images on my camera at 14:00. There were no queues, everything went like clockwork, however I knew in advance exactly what documents I wanted and that they were available.

[hamishmck]

Good evening to you all again and thanks for all your suggestions, tips and advice.All much appreciated.

The names as requested by SPOF are as follows.

Harold Woodhouse Sames DOB 1893, Yorks & Lancs 2nd Lt 1914 (i know he has a record)

William FIelding Sames Lt East Lancs Died 1915 May Gallipoli

Herbert Colin Sames Private Manchesters Died 1915 June Egypt

Percy Aspden Woodhouse 2nd Lt Manchesters Died11/09/1915 Buried at sea

Robert Bibby sgt Royal Field Artillery died 23.10.1918 Beirut.

Captain Stead? not much to go on but he was from Lancashire and survived the war but lost a leg.

i will try to firm up on him but do realised there must have been plenty of captain Steads.

i hope this helps.

many thanks Hamish.

[sotonmate]

Hamish

Harold Woodhouse SAMES service file reference WO339/23015.

William Fielding SAMES service file reference WO374/60162.

Herbert Colin SAMES has no apparent service record on Ancestry UK. His MIC shows he was 4316 Private with 1/6 Manchester Regiment at Gallipoli from 5.5.1915.He died of wounds received during the fight for Krithia. The Battalion War Diary will detail the actions from his first landing,reference WO95/4316. This diary is digital and forms part of the whole of 127 Brigade of 42 Division's units and can be downloaded from the Discovery database at the NA for 3.36.

[sotonmate]

There are a few Captain STEAD and other STEAD of lower rank (so might be his earlier file as a Lt etc) in Lancashire Fusiliers and Cheshires. Also one in Army Cyclists and one in RE. Need his other names !

Percy Aspden WOODHOUSE has a service file under WO374/76613.

[sotonmate]

Sergeant Robert E BIBBY 243833,B Battery of 261 Brigade, Royal Field Artillery has no apparent service record on Ancestry UK. His unit was part of 52 Division and he served in a war theatre (Middle East) after 31 Dec 1915. The War Diary of the Brigade,if he served only there,is under WO95/4600 to 31 March 1918. From 1 April 1918 the unit moved to 7 Indian Division in Egypt,War Diary WO95/4708. His entry in SDGW shows he died,so probably from sickness. There was a flu pandemic at this time.

[John_Hartley]

Ahem. Hate to drop a blatant plug in here, but my book "Not a Rotter in the Lot" is a history of the 6th Manchesters and has chapters on their time in Egypt and another on their time at Gallipoli, including very full details, from personal accounts, about Third Krithia.