I have just received a most distressing picture of a neglected plot

[Bardess]

In a plot in Yardley Cemetery lies the remains of a Smethwick casualty in the most dilapidated condition. It has almost moved me to tears and wonder if there is anything that can be done. Pte Harry Price died after suffering a shrapnel wound to his lower spine, was paralysed and died almost 2 months later. On top of that his widow claimed that 11s 2d was missing from his purse. Is this typical of private burials?

.

[GraemeClarke]

Diane

In short - YES.

Ive numerous pictures from Ryecroft Cemetery, Walsall in similar condition and have added NUMEROUS pictures of just turf to my research where nothing at all remains.

Heres just 3

Regards,

Graeme

[Seadog]

I am afraid so, this man was in the Royal Navy and died on the 10^th November 1918 and is buried here in Bristol. I understand that the families of those who died in the UK were offered a formal CWGC headstone which would be erected on the family grave and this stone and the surrounds would be maintained, grass cut etc. However even in such cases I doubt that the CWGC would get involved in actually repairing the structure of what after all are private graves so this is the inevitable outcome.

Norman

[Bardess]

OMG, those images are really depressing.

[goldmax 007]

Shame to see it in such a state

[Seadog]

This subject has been discussed before here on the forum and much information was gleaned through that debate. It is a pity that for whatever reason the family of the deceased chose not to have a formal CWGC headstone erected. I am sure that had they opted for such a headstone I cannot think that the CWGC would allow a grave to get into such a state which ultimately could lead to the official headstone actually falling over. In fact right now the CWGC are appealing through their website for relatives of certain graves to come forward as they, the CWGC are proposing to undertake maintenance work in certain cemeteries on what I can only presume are those private graves with a CWGC headstone that are in a poor condition. If any member is aware of the actual system that was in place at the time the CWGC were offering to erect such headstones presumably during the interwar years then I for one would very much like to know just what the system was. Here is one of the CWGC requests regarding the aforementioned grave maintenance.

CWGC Appeal

http://www.cwgc.org/news-events/news/2013/8/appeal-for-relatives-(1).aspx

Norman

[keithmroberts]

I am clear that CWGC have a programme of visiting graves that they have direct responsibility for, but I am not clear whether they routinely visit family grave markers where they don't have a standard headstone. I'm sure someone will enlighten us.

However, if a grave like this is reported I am fairly confident that they will contact the cemetery authorities, and hopefully the grave owners. If the owners can't be found, I believe that they will eventually take action, probably by adding a CWGC marker to the grave. it will of course take time, as their resources are finite, but I'm sure they will respond to reports.

Keith

[Seadog]

Keith I understand what you say but surely it will be doubtful that the CWGC will erect a formal headstone in those cases where any surviving relatives cannot be found, I would also have thought that looking at the sunken state of some of the graves it will take more work than just the erection of a CWGC headstone. Regrettably the item on the CWGC website is extremely brief and does not give any details of just what work they intend to undertake.

Regards

Norman

[keithmroberts]

Sunken graves are obviously a bigger issue, but we have surely all seen the evidence of the CWGC adding a marker to a family grave that is no longer legible. They will obviously have detailed policies that determine the point at which they step in, and probably also which spewcify how far they go in the case of graves that have collapsed.

Keith

[Seadog]

What then would you suggest is the action that we can take should we wish to bring these graves to the attention of the CWGC, bearing in mind that there must be a considerable number such as those in Posts 1-3. I appreciate that it is the CWGC who should be contacted but who or what department in that organization?.

Regards

Norman

[hazelclark]

Don't know much about grave sites, but i have seen several letters on Ancestry requesting money that was not returned with personal effects from France. In many cases the fact of the money existing was corroborated by a third party. Sometimes a minister and sometimes others. They make sad reading.

Hazel C.

[Seadog]

It does Hazel there is the poor woman having just lost her Husband and asking where his 11shillings and twopence had got to. If, and we shall never know some cretin actually stole this from the man then they would have to live with this for the rest of their life.

Norman

[Magnumbellum]

In Yardley Cemetery lies the remains of a Smethwick casualty in the most dilapidated condition. It has almost moved me to tears and wonder if there is anything that can be done. Pte Harry Price died after suffering a shrapnel wound to his lower spine, was paralysed and died after 2 months. On top of that his widow claimed that 11s 2d was missing from his purse. Is this typical of private burials?

.

With no disrespect to Harry Price and the general issue raised, I am puzzled by the reference to him as a "Smethwick casualty", when the letter from his mother is clearly from an address in Saltley, Birmingham, and Yardley Cemetery is in Birmingham. Smethwick has never been in Birmingham, and is nowhere near either Saltley or Yardley.

[dycer]

To my mind the Forum is now trying to ally WW1 content with 21st Century despair and assume the CWGC will pick up the pieces.

The man was grievously injured, returned home, where he died.

His Wife "bought a lair",possibly with the few shilliings she anticipated receiving but she was able to "lay her Husband" and post burial afford grave markers,presumably in the expectation that she,or members of the family, would continue to look after "him".

Time moves on,the Family have moved away,have no interest in their past,or do not even know the existence of a Family plot.

Before the CWGC is approached should not attempts be made to contact "his" Family?

George

[Seadog]

Good thinking George, are you offering?. What one are you talking about by the way, the one in the first post I presume.

Norman

[Kath]

A cousin of my husband died at home. The family plot did not have a CWGC stone.

My husband contacted the CWGC & a headstone was erected.

http://www.cwgc.org/...H, JOSEPH PERCY

I was doubtful if this was right as the family may have chosen not to do this.

Terry Denham assured me that it was the CWGC's duty to erect a military headstone.

Kath.

[Bardess]

After a restless night I have reread my initial garbled post and still feel extremely upset over the state of these plots. I will contact Terry Denham and ask if he has any words of wisdom. Thank you all for your thoughts.

Magnumbellum, the letter was from his wife and his parents lived in Smethwick as per CWGC

[dycer]

Good thinking George, are you offering?. What one are you talking about by the way, the one in the first post I presume.

Norman

Norman

It is indeed the first post and no I am not offering as I do not consider it is either my or the Forum's right to interfere with the Widow's original wishes.

George

[Bardess]

I really don't want this thread to go down the path of family wishes at the moment thank you

[Bardess]

Norman, would you kindly post a link to the previous thread

[dycer]

Diane,

I agree ,you should approach Terry.

George

[Bardess]

In a nutshell, Terry said that CWGC would know of the condition of all private plots and that we should email CWGC UK Area with our concerns. Sometimes the cemetery staff can refuse intervention!

[Seadog]

Norman, would you kindly post a link to the previous thread

Sirry Diane I cannot find it right now but it started from my finding the grave in P3 whilst I was researching my local church Roll of Honour, This thread seems to be covering more or less the same ground.

Norman

[keithfazzani]

As someone who has been responsible for a number of graveyards over the years I can only say that the maintenance of graves is largely the responsibility of the families concerned. It has been estimated that in one local churchyard, with which I was once involved, and is still in use, has been in constant use for approximately 800 years and now has 8000 bodies buried. Mostly now unmarked and unremembered. Each person buried is of course of inestimable value and each person buried there of great memory to the society and people amongst whom they lived. It would be impractical to have maintained each plot in pristine condition, indeed many "plots" must have been used over and over again. In that particular graveyard there are several CWGC known burials which are maintained by the local community and the CWGC if necessary. There are also graves of many other soldiers, many now forgotten, from previous wars including a survivor from the Zulu Wars. In reality it would be impossible to have maintained each and every grave over the past 800 years. I suppose my question is when do we stop, and if we don't, just which graves do we maintain and who finances it. If we choose to maintain only those who died in or were survivors of war where is the fairness in that.

[keithmroberts]

I take absolutely the point made by Keithfazzani and we should accept it. The graves that are accepted by CWGC are in a relatively fortunate position, and are out of the ordinary. Having said that, no harm can ever be done if a grave that the CWGC regard as within their remit, is reported to them if it is in poor condition. They must have a long list of private graves where they wish to take action to fulfill their remit, and drawing such a one to their attention will at least prompt a review of it, and it's priority in relation to others.

Keith