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Remembered Today:

Where is X-Line? Ypres 1916/17


IRC Kevin

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Having a problem finding a location on the map below (dated 16/1/17), known as X-Line. Place and time is the right sub-sector of the left sector, near Wieltje, December 26th 1916.

I've got two front line companies between Wieltje and I5.9 and one support/reserve company in Congreve Walk and the other support/reserve company in 'X Line'. I've also got a mention of "U-framing and repairing of parapet in X Line near junction of Strand." (I've highlighted Strand). Going by the previous statement this is probably a substantial reserve/support trench, especially as a complete company was based there for days at a time more than once, but nothing joining Strand seems to fit the bill, unless X Line was a previous name for Oxford Road, which I think might have been more than just the old road and possibly a trench system? Without the location of X Line I can't work out whether or not they're deploying two front line companies with one in support and one in reserve, or two front line, with two in support.

xline3_zps422fa593.jpg

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Hi Kevin

Not 100 % sure but in the Railway Wood sector the X line ran from Hellfire Corner through I.10 & 4 central, I am guessing that it carried on past Potijze and Saint Jean.

Annette

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I think its Chateau-Congrove Walk-Liverpool?

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I think we are on the same track Annette.

The section I posted appears to be discontinuous, but X6 to X11 is continuous from C.28.c.9.1 to C.20.a.5.0 and takes in Congreve Walk and Liverpool Trench, although not Chateau Trench.

Phil

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I think we are on the same track Annette.

The section I posted appears to be discontinuous, but X6 to X11 is continuous from C.28.c.9.1 to C.20.a.5.0 and takes in Congreve Walk and Liverpool Trench, although not Chateau Trench.

Phil

Hi Phil

Your correct not Chateau Trench, I was looking at first map.

Annette

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I'm pretty certain that I've got a trenchmap somewhere with 'X Lines' depicted and marked up as such. Give me a few days and I'll take a look for it.

Dave

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Thanks for this everyone. I've got the "new X Line" on the Zillebeke map, which then branches and appears to join to either the east or west of Lancer Farm on the St Julien map, (nearly every location I've needed in the War for this battalion has been on the join of a map!!) but then becomes discontinuous. The logical extension of this if it were to meet the Strand would be to the east of Lancer Farm and then onwards towards Prowse Farm and then maybe northwards along the track to Halfway Cottage. If this is the case it makes sense as I've then got the 2-1-1 formation the Battalion usually held in the front with 2 companies in the C posts, one company in X Line as support and the other in Congreve Walk in reserve. I'm kind of surprised this isn't marked on this version of the map, which is the 'secret' edition and supposedly correct up to the 17th January 1917.

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On my map, X3 is what became James Trench, running past Lancer Farm (East side). That is the southern limit of the map. To the north of Prowse Farm there is a continuation of X5, running on the east side of the track up to Halfway Cottage, labelled as S9A. It is not shown on the later map that I have been using for comparison, other than what looks like an abandoned section of trench at the north end.

Phil

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On my map, X3 is what became James Trench, running past Lancer Farm (East side). That is the southern limit of the map. To the north of Prowse Farm there is a continuation of X5, running on the east side of the track up to Halfway Cottage, labelled as S9A. It is not shown on the later map that I have been using for comparison, other than what looks like an abandoned section of trench at the north end.

Phil

Thanks, Phil. Looks like I was thinking along the right lines.

Kevin

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I'm pretty certain that I've got a trenchmap somewhere with 'X Lines' depicted and marked up as such. Give me a few days and I'll take a look for it.

Dave

X-Line clearly labelled.......

Dave

post-357-0-18316200-1358711594_thumb.jpg

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...and a slightly shorter version as of October 1916........

post-357-0-74773200-1358711768_thumb.jpg

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Many thanks, for this, Croonaert. I'm wondering if they moved X Line forward in December 16-January 17 to pass through a line from Prowse Farm and Halfway Cottage and this is why there was so much work taking place on the line. In this map Congreve Walk is part of X Line and the war diary I'm working on puts one company in X Line and another in Congreve, suggesting that these are two separate locations, although they could have meant in X Line to the right of Congreve Walk. Both companies would certainly have been to the south of the Saint Jean-Wieltje road. There's also the mention of working on the junction of Strand and X line to support the theory of a possible movement or extension of X Line. (This of course could all be explained if the un-named section of trench moving north from the junction of X Line and Haymarket is actually part of Strand!

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Kevin,

Dave's X Line in post 11, is as Annette said, running down Chateau Trench, whereas my X3 is James Trench, which is connected to Prowse Trench and appears to be heading South to Haymarket.

post-20576-0-43697800-1358718095_thumb.j

The above is corrected to 1/4/17

Phil

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Thanks, Phil. Looks like this confirms that X Line did move and went forward some time between October 16 and April 17 This fits in nicely with the work the Battalion were involved with in December 16.

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Looks like this confirms that X Line did move and went forward some time between October 16 and April 17 This fits in nicely with the work the Battalion were involved with in December 16.

....sorry to chuck a spanner in the works here, but the map in post 11 actually dates from May 1917 (and 'Strand' actually continued to join onto X-Line/Chateau trench)

Dave.

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Kevin,

I wonder if your man was using an old map. The one I used in Post 2 is corrected to 21/7/15, but from the Divisional lines drawn on it, I believe would date its use to around December 1915. It was your comment about the junction with Strand that swayed me to using it.

Dave,

You've confused me totally now. My map in Post 14 and Kevin's in Post 1 both pre-date yours in Post 11, but why revert back to X Line from Chateau Trench?

Phil

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You've confused me totally now. My map in Post 14 and Kevin's in Post 1 both pre-date yours in Post 11, but why revert back to X Line from Chateau Trench?

It's just a naming thing due to the scale. ... 'X-Line' (or more correctly, 'X-Lines' or 'The X -Line') is actually a collection of trenches that formed a defensive line. It never actually was the name of a single trench (so nothing was actually changed to or from anything other than the letter/number reference of 1914/15 being changed into named trenches during 1915).

The collective name is given on the two examples I posted possibly because, being 1:20,000 scale, individual naming would probably result in too congested a map.

Dave

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  • 2 years later...

An oldish thread but Dave's map at post #12 looks right to me , as at 31/7/17. I have 6th Cheshire assembling at English Farm, X Line, prior to their attack.

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