Jump to content
Free downloads from TNA ×
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

A Nice Little Stash (of Bayonets)


shippingsteel

Recommended Posts

I have finally gotten around to giving this lot a bit of a freshen up. They are the latest instalment from a Gun Show that I attended only recently.

Seemingly nothing extra ordinary - just a couple of old Remington P1913 bayonets (they're as common as dirt) - but look "matching twins".! :whistle:

Cheers, S>S

post-52604-0-10488900-1350119085_thumb.j

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And that's not all that they have in common. I am not sure if anyone noticed the dates, but these are amongst some of the last P1913 bayonets that were made.

Of particular interest to our American friends, these were both taken into US service and overstamped accordingly, for attaching to the newly made M1917 rifles.

Cheers, S>S

post-52604-0-51793300-1350122466_thumb.j

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What a lovely pair (ooh er) :thumbsup:

I just knew that someone would be able to appreciate my reference to the "twins" - trust you Sean.! :lol: Anyway ... getting back to the bayonets ...

Yes, so while the poor old P14 rifles seem to have struggled to see any service to mention during the GW, it appears not so for the P1913 bayonet.

At least those that found themselves in US service would have got shipped off to France quick and lively (both of these have been nicely sharpened)

Cheers, S>S

post-52604-0-00659600-1350127761_thumb.j

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And better still, they both came with their matching (dated 1917) US service M1917 scabbards, of the scarcer 1st pattern which are now getting harder to find.

I've always thought these overstamped P1913 bayonets would have been the first into service and so more likely to have been 'over there' - is this the proof.?

I grabbed these off a 'long term' collector/dealer that I speak to regularly. He is a great source and very knowledgeable and actually had a box of this same stuff.

Of course I have never seen the likes, all US overstamped P1913's and all in the matching US M1917 scabbards. They look to have been together from day one.

Cheers, S>S

post-52604-0-99797200-1350128578_thumb.j

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh they really are a lovely......sorry S>S! Fantastic purchase by the way. I had a go at cleaning up one of my German 'pointy things' the other day. Is it possible to remove all the staining on blade with .0000 wire wool, or were the 'twins' just very clean to begin with?

Regards

Sean

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The particular thing to watch for with these P1913 bayonets is to check that they are still in the original sand-blasted finish over the blade area, many have been refurbished.

As you can see with these examples they're in good condition but are not 'mint'. They have all the regular knocks that you would expect from service (plus a few blade nicks)

Cheers, S>S

post-52604-0-59539400-1350130567_thumb.j

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have just had a look at my 1913 which has 11 16 instead of your 10 17. Would this be month and year of re-issue?

Regards

Sean

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is it possible to remove all the staining on blade with .0000 wire wool, or were the 'twins' just very clean to begin with?

No Sean, they have to be fairly clean to start with. You can remove some of the active rust areas from the blade, but the staining from where it has been is there to stay.

In the case of these examples I didn't touch their blades at all, just a rub with some oil and a rag. The pommel and crossguard got a light brush with the wirewool and oil.

EDIT. Oops, crossed posts going everywhere.! Yeah mate, those are the dates of manufacture in the month and year format. So yours was made in November of 1916.

Cheers, S>S

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While these bayonets are quite nice examples and a little less common being of the overstamped variety, it is these original scabbards which are the highlight here.

As I mentioned these are the 1st pattern M1917, the design of which was patented by Hiram Maxim of the Maxim Silencer company. But this design was shortlived.

The weakness was in the leather tab which connected the scabbard locket to the belt hook/hanger, which was then suspended off the belt. The leather did not last.

Especially in the wet weather conditions of the trenches the leather was found to crack and quickly rotted. The 2nd pattern incorporated a belt hook with the locket.

Both these scabbards were manufactured by the Graton & Knight company being stamped G&K 1917 just above the rivets. But they also feature slight differences.

The locket and chape fittings are made by different suppliers, the one on the left marked with MS and the right marked with GF. And the varying colour green paint.

Cheers, S>S

post-52604-0-64993600-1350133338_thumb.j

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is a period photo of an American 'Doughboy' armed with the M1917 rifle, and with bayonet fitted in the 1st pattern M1917 scabbard with the belt hanger.

Cheers, S>S

post-52604-0-01568600-1350134143_thumb.j

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A few more pics of the markings that can be found on these scabbards. Underlined in red on the leather tab, G&K for Graton and Knight (the makers)

And then on the body of the scabbard another version of the makers symbol, this time just GK. In the blue box we have the inspector's initials, F.I.C.

Cheers, S>S

post-52604-0-53362600-1350170850_thumb.jpost-52604-0-24710600-1350170828_thumb.j

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And I always say that the story of the bayonet is told in the grips, and I think these ones have been around a bit ... (and then put away in storage.!)

As you can see these have got a few bruises in the timber, as well as the initial of some bored Doughboy, wonder if he went by James or Jimmy.? :innocent:

Cheers, S>S

post-52604-0-49860900-1350171343_thumb.j post-52604-0-08134300-1350171363_thumb.j

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lovely bayonets by the way. The scabbards are a great find too.

Thanks J, yes I think the scabbards are an amazing find in that condition. They were the main reason I went to that show - I knew they would be there.! :rolleyes:

This shot shows up the armoury sharpening thats been added to the blade. You don't get that sitting in storage - these were being properly readied for war.

Cheers, S>S

post-52604-0-33231900-1350248417_thumb.j

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I mentioned these are the 1st pattern M1917, the design of which was patented by Hiram Maxim of the Maxim Silencer company. But this design was shortlived.

The weakness was in the leather tab which connected the scabbard locket to the belt hook/hanger, which was then suspended off the belt. The leather did not last.

Especially in the wet weather conditions of the trenches the leather was found to crack and quickly rotted. The 2nd pattern incorporated a belt hook with the locket.

Here is another interesting example of the scabbard that I stumbled across by accident. It was a 'visitor' to France and provides testament to the above weaknesses.

This piece marked on the throat to the 16th Engineers (16 ENG) which were one of the very first American units to have been mobilised and shipped over to France.

While this scabbard is only in relic condition it remains one of my more interesting items. These Engineers had a proud place in history being amongst the 'first to fight'.

Cheers, S>S

post-52604-0-37453900-1350250893_thumb.j

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very nice S>S, some nice markings and a real piece of history. Condition always comes second to tangible history like this.

Any thoughts on how these two twins ended up together, and in Australia? I don't collect US bayonets (had to draw the line somewhere) but recently acquired a brodie helmet with US 30th division insignia (a division which fought with the Australians in 1918) and understand that there may have been some souvenier "swaps" done at the end of the war.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Any thoughts on how these two twins ended up together, and in Australia?

The manner in which these bayonets came (they were amongst a group of similar types) and still with matching period scabbards suggests they came direct from storage.

Now I do know a lot of surplus American equipment was put into storage after the war, and when WW2 came along much was brought out for use especially in the Pacific.

In the early stages of the Pacific theatre operations the Marines were desperately short of the current equipment, as the Army and the 'Victory in Europe' took precedence.

At this time Australia became a major base for the American effort as they trained up in readiness for deployment during the island hopping offensive against the Japanese.

My guess is these came out of storage in the US and were shipped to Australia about 1942, then sat around somewhere in a warehouse for quite a period, before surfacing.

Its always hard to say but stuff in this condition has obviously been in storage for much of the time since manufacture. But again this conflicts with the definite signs of usage.

I do know that the metal chapes at the bottom of these scabbards have had a small drainage hole drilled into them. Not sure when this was done but perhaps it may be a clue.

Cheers, S>S

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now I do know a lot of surplus American equipment was put into storage after the war, and when WW2 came along much was brought out for use especially in the Pacific.

I've been scrounging around for photos and came across these - thought they might provide an illustration of the above statement - same weapons but slightly different era.! :lol:

Cheers, S>S

post-52604-0-05692800-1350388627_thumb.jpost-52604-0-81656400-1350388811_thumb.j

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...