Help With London Gazette Search

[tn.drummond]

I am trying to find a list of officers commissioned on 25.09.1916 from the 5th OCB at Trinity College, Cambridge. The majority came from the Public Schools battalions of the RF with many being posted to the MGC.

I've searched the London Gazette, clumsily and without success. Any hints from those more au fait with its idiosyncrasies than I would be most gratefully received.

Tim

[Phil Evans]

Tim,

Have you got any names - the more unusual the better?

Whether they will all turn up as a block, I'm not sure.

Phil

[battiscombe]

do you have no names of any of them? That would seem the best way in, and then access the index for the gazette for one of them. Otherwise can you be more specific of which Bns those might be.. ? a 1917 Army list would then indicate likely names which could the be searched for in the gazette index.

but I can find these from Army List.... I cant see any 2Lts in 18th-19th-20th Bns with that commission date (in May 1917 Army List) .. but several commissioned into MGC [Heavy] on 26th Sept 1916...see Gazette 10084-85 ... 20 october 1916 .. and these include a few Fusiliers..

R. Fus. The undermentioned cadets to be temp.

2nd Lts. (on prob.) (attd.): — 26 Sept. 1916.

Henry Clark. • John Arthur Laver. Bernard Joseph O'Connor. Cecil Alfred Edward Stredder.

with a long list of others

[Stebie9173]

By 1916 it is doubtful that the name of the OCB would be mentioned in the Gazette. If you have the names of one or two men then that might provide us with a means to find a list from that date.

Steve.

[tn.drummond]

Thanks all - sorry been offline running an errand.

What I am researching is a signed Menu Card from Trinity College dated 28.09.1916 from graduates of that terms 5th OCB. I've traced a number of these to a commissioned date of 25.09.16 and am trying to trace each name back to an MIC and thence as far as I can. I've traced about 50 (including A E Housman who was present on top table) but some of the remaining signatures are a little obscure and the thought struck me that if I can find a list of all those who graduated I should be able to decipher the majority of those left.

Names I've traced (to varying degrees) thus far:

C F Hobday EF Canteens

L Huish Devons & DCLI

J Warrington 19th RF - Border Regt

M Elfick 19th RF - MGC

E R Clark ASC 4th RF KIA

PG Du Val (possible only) 2nd RF or RFC/CEF Possible only

J A Robotham MGC

J C How 2nd RWS KIA

A W Kerry 1st RF KIA

H Stanley Ede SWB / 1/34 Sikh Instructor ?

R Vere Laurence (Fellow)

RWD Lee Dorsets attch RMF Instructor ?

K F Veasey 3rd Leicester

FRD Wickham 18th RF - RFC

EW Hands 19th RF - MGC

WH Shortridge MGC

EJ Friend 19th RF - MGC

KF Howlett 19th RF - E.Kents

GHBS Ruth 2nd MGB Indian Army - 1/26 Punjabi - Probable

JA Hobson 19th RF - MGC KIA

RH Lorie R Ulster Rifles Possible Instructor

S C Bostock 1st LGuards - Possible

JJ Simpson 19th RF - MGC

Jack Thorn 19th RF -MGC

I've another 30 or so identified awaiting research and about 50 to home in on.

I've a publication in the back of my mind for this one so that LG info, elusive as it may be, is my first stop for the 50 'scribblers'.

Many thanks for the interest

Tim

Battiscombe - will check out your contribution in next hour.

[tn.drummond]

2nd Lts. (on prob.) (attd.): — 26 Sept. 1916.

Henry Clark. • John Arthur Laver. Bernard Joseph O'Connor. Cecil Alfred Edward Stredder.

with a long list of others

No 'hits' I'm afraid, nor for the others listed that day in the LG.. Somewhat frustratingly need the self same list for a day earlier.

Thanks for the lead.

Tim

[ss002d6252]

I've another 30 or so identified awaiting research and about 50 to home in on.

Can you post the list of men your looking for ?

[tn.drummond]

Can you post the list of men your looking for ?

The men I'm looking for are unidentified - all I have are their obscure signatures that I'm trying to unravel - hence the request.

Tim

[Phil Evans]

From the last entry on this page and the next couple of pages there are a number of 26th Sept Cadets.

It may pay to go back or forward a few issues from there as well. The hard way I'm afraid.

Phil

[Martin Bennitt]

The men I'm looking for are unidentified - all I have are their obscure signatures that I'm trying to unravel - hence the request.

Tim

If you can post scans of the signatures I'm sure the Forum decoders would love to have a go

cheers Martin B

[tn.drummond]

From the last entry on this page and the next couple of pages there are a number of 26th Sept Cadets.

It may pay to go back or forward a few issues from there as well. The hard way I'm afraid.

Phil

Many thanks Phil, I'll have a dig at these tomorrow.

If you can post scans of the signatures I'm sure the Forum decoders would love to have a go

cheers Martin B

I'll see how I get on for present thanks Martin but will certainly post them when I'm done (or done in)

Tim

[battiscombe]

No Veasey in 1916 index of LG ....BUT ...I find Shortridge and JA Hobson and others amongst these - this looks promising ..

MACHINE GUN CORPS (INFANTRY).

The undermentioned cadets to be temp. 2nd Lts. (on prob.) : —

26 Sept. 1916.

Reginald Charles Agate. Harry Gordon Allen. Harry Arkle. Henry Ernest Baggs. John Edwin Bailey. William Vine Baker. Joseph Oliver Broster. Frank Brown C'arruthers. • Robert Lawrence Crawford Christie. Douglas Card Davis.

Osman Woodward Davies. Ernest William Derbyshire. Herbert Dixon. Robert Arthur Clement Edkins. Edwin Richard Foreman. Charles George Glass.

Arthur Stepney Gulston. Robert Henry Haylett. Leslie Hill. Edwin Nathaniel Hull. Hubert Martyn Hull. John Stewart Illingworth. Gordon Morton Inglis. Victor Algernon Roberts King. James Lunn.

James Temple McNaught. Arthur Giles1 March. Guy Neville. Frederick John Robert Oates. Herbert Frank Pittock. Clarence Aubrey P ratt.

Paul Richards.

10290 THE LONDON GAZETTE, 24 OCTOBER, 1916.

Charles William Victor Kobertson. Ernest Cecil Steele. James Ullathorne. Robert Ivo Vint.

Frank Pargeter Wallsgrove. Henry Wilton Whitamore. George Stimpson Ball. Tom Stanley Bickerstaffe. John Francis Bleakley. Douglas Arthur Davis. Henry Julian Dunlop Day. Henry Harris.

William Standish Heaphy. Thomas Wilfred Howells. Rupert Arthur Isaac. Bernard Clifford Isaacs. Henry John Huddleston Jackson. Edward Dion Lane.

Llewellyn Lewis. G'eorge Forrester Lowdon. Edwin Covington Malsch. Arthur Burnet McCarter. George Eric Mathers. Claude Meeson. Thomas Henry Molyneux. Clifford William Owen. Henry Alan Page. Hubert Merefield Parsons. Sidney Charles Pryor.' Lawrence Richards. Eustace Blackburne Ritson. Julius Archibald Stevens. Harold John Perdu Teague. David Reginald Tinnion. George Max Charles Turner. Harry Watts. Clifford White. Ronald Swann Withington. Wilfrid Evan Adams. Frederick Herbert Arnold. Archibald Roderick Barnes. Oswald Henry Burden. Maxfield James Elfick. Frank Sidney Thomas Fosbery. Edward John Friend. William Henry Green. Richard Charles Hall.- George Tharratt Harrison. Douglas Preston Harvey. Hubert Leslie.Henry. John Alfred Hobson. William Henry Iredale. Keith Gane Jefferys. Reginald Walter Kemp. Reginald Percy Mander. Alan Porteous McClare. Alfred Charles Montford Jonathan Alan Robotham, Fred Eric Rogers. William Hubert Shortridge. Jack Thorn. Howard Reeve Waldock. Thomas Arthur Norman Walker. George Edward Williams. George Calvert. John Cole. Oswin Greenwood. Harry Hampson. Frank Doughty Hartland. Donald Dunbar Holgate. Henry Joseph Ibberson. Ernest Ceredig Jones. Ernest Hugh Jones. Evan Hopkins Jones. William Houston Keenan Frank Lowe.

Thomas Gordon Manners.

Philip Norman Mason. Frederick Edward North. Philip Charles Brian Stringer. James Mortimer Strong. William Arthur Vicfcers. David Anderson. Jack Cecil Ashburner. Angus Bowie. George Rutherford Hamilton. Ernesfa Thomas Ashley Heap. Robert Leslie Jaffray Henderson. Norman James Miller. William MackenzieMurdoch. Walter Gunn Scott, Walter Smart. t Percy Charles Bond. Thomas Bowker. Wilfrid Brackenridge. Tom Llewellyn Brewer. Archibald John Bridgman. George Broadbent. Alexander Dalzie1 Gordon BrowTV. Reginald Buckley. Gordon Frank Chissell. Herbert Cox. Norman Jerome Darby. Francis James Bassett Dixon. Sidney Dixon. Rupert Morgan Dunn. Brinley Rhys Edwards. Wilfrid. James Fawkes. Eric Austin Fletcher. Arthur Fogg. Caleb Herbert Gadd. Thomas Sweeney Gilshenan. William Henry Hampson Thomas Harry. Christopher William Hendry. Edwin Addy Holmes. Norman Stuart Hunt. Thomas Glencross L ittle. Charles Norton Loveday. William James Henry Clare Lovett. Hopkin Thomas Maddocks. Frederic Charles Maldram. Sydney Margerison. Eric Geoffrey Meggitt. Albert Percy Mitchell.

Charles Davenport Morley. Harry Newton. Victor Sylvester Northam. Leslie Alfred Okey.

Leslie Deafden Overstall. Henry Peacock. Harold Edwin Pearce. Sidney Francis Peters. Frank Alfred Richards. Ian Robertson.

John Robinson. Albert Edgar Saynor. Alexander Charles Scott. Arthur Sharp. James Sharp. Joseph Norman Shaw. Charles Hermon Smith. Hubert Edward Smith. Percy George Snoxell. George Steel. Will Stokes. James Simpson Storey. Richard Morton Thomas. Horace John Trythall. William Underbill. Reginald Baines Viccars. James Roby Watson. Thomas Wilfred Wells. William Scott Whitehouae.

[battiscombe]

I also note that two of these were later decorated - in same LG list July 1918 - and possibly amongst your men and their story ..??

T./2nd.Lt, Howard Reeve Waldock, M.G.C. For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty when ordered forward with reinforcements, which he led through two heavy barrages without loss. He then took over a section, from which the officer had become a casualty, successfully covering a withdrawal,and eventually took up a fresh line of defence, driving off several strong enemy attacks. Throughout the operations he displayed fine courage and initiative, and his splendid example under heavy fire greatly inspired all ranks with him.

T./2nd Lt. Frank Pargeter Wallsgrove, M.G.C, For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty. When all other machine guns had been put out of action, six guns were rushed up by car to support the infantry who were being hard pressed. By his courage and skilful handling of these guns he held up the enemy for a considerable time, and eventually covered the retirement of the infantry to a new position. His coolness and resource in this critical period largely contributed to the successful withdrawal.

[tn.drummond]

Battiscombe

To say this is both impressive and helpful is an understatement.

It will take me a number of days to get to grips with this, follow leads etc but I think the nut is cracked.

I'll post a list of those identified when I get there. Will PM you when this is done.

Well done and thank you to all who have helped.

Tim

[battiscombe]

It will be interesting to know if such Gazette groups represent single 'graduations' from OCBs.

[tn.drummond]

It will be interesting to know if such Gazette groups represent single 'graduations' from OCBs.

Will indeed.

Early signs are promising - noticed O.H. Burden immediately (appears just before the highlighted Maxwell Elfick) who is on my 'probables' list.

Tim

[tn.drummond]

Quick update for those who have helped...

Battiscombe's MGC list has confirmed 6 names and thrown up a fresh 7 - many thanks. The LG tranche they appear in (pge 10290 / 1916) is Adams to Walker and not elsewhere. Can we take it from this that OCB lists were not posted en bloc per

Battalion?

The decorated Waldock and Wallsgrove are not present on the menu.

The LG index advice (as a start point for a search) has also proven invaluable. Have established that at least 2 commission dates were evident from this intake (26/9/16 & 24/10/16) so presumably some had to undertake a little 'revisited' learning

MiC Commissioning dates seem to state a day earlier than that detailed in the LG.

Plugging away and will update as to progress for those interested.

Tim

[Guest Fay Wray]

Hello people

I'm a newbie to this site, found it when looking up info on a great uncle (William Thomas Meggitt) who died in France - intend to visit for Anzac Day this year with my daughter - but what I found instead is a reference to my grandfather, Eric Geoffrey Meggitt, in the lists above - I am wondering if his signature was on the menu card - how absolutely fascinating that such things exist and are still looked at.

I also found some photos and postcards from my great uncle which had been sold on eBay only last October - I am hoping that the seller might respond as to where they came from, perhaps family. I live in Australia and my daughter is now in London. My grandfather (Eric Meggitt) lived into his early 70s in Australia, had a soldier settler farm, struggled all his life from effects of being gassed in France, but had four daughters, 14 grandchildren and 15 great grandchildren.

regards

Fay

[tn.drummond]

Hi Fay and welcome to the Forum.

Unfortunately your Grandfather is not one of those who appears on the menu. He appeared in 10290 THE LONDON GAZETTE, 24 OCTOBER, 1916 when he was commissioned.

He was infuriatingly close to making my menu as most of those present were commissioned from the 18th and 19th Royal Fusiliers (1st and 2nd Public Schools) and passed out on 25.9.1916. Your Grandfather passed out on the same day but initially served with the 21st (4th Public Schools) Btn Royal Fusiliers. He went to France on 12/11/1915 and following his commission joined the 6th Battalion of the Machine Guns Corps. Served near the duration and did well to make Australia for a new life. You must be proud.

Best regards

Tim

[Guest themoudie]

No Veasey in 1916 index of LG ....BUT ...I find Shortridge and JA Hobson and others amongst these - this looks promising ..

MACHINE GUN CORPS (INFANTRY).

The undermentioned cadets to be temp. 2nd Lts. (on prob.) : —

26 Sept. 1916.

Reginald Charles Agate. Harry Gordon Allen. Harry Arkle. Henry Ernest Baggs. John Edwin Bailey. William Vine Baker. Joseph Oliver Broster. Frank Brown C'arruthers. • Robert Lawrence Crawford Christie. Douglas Card Davis.

Osman Woodward Davies. Ernest William Derbyshire. Herbert Dixon. Robert Arthur Clement Edkins. Edwin Richard Foreman. Charles George Glass.

Arthur Stepney Gulston. Robert Henry Haylett. Leslie Hill. Edwin Nathaniel Hull. Hubert Martyn Hull. John Stewart Illingworth. Gordon Morton Inglis. Victor Algernon Roberts King. James Lunn.

James Temple McNaught. Arthur Giles1 March. Guy Neville. Frederick John Robert Oates. Herbert Frank Pittock. Clarence Aubrey P ratt.

Paul Richards.

........

Battiscombe and Suddery,

Thank you for posting this list of Temporary 2nd Lieutenants.

My Grandfather, William Vine Baker was given his Temporary promotion after being wounded in the first half of 1916 and receiving the MC, a short description appears in the London Gazette and this has been clipped then pasted onto a photograph of him that I have. I also have the Temporary promotion document and medal card.

My Grandfather died when I was 2 years old, so I was never able to enquire about any of this. He also never spoke about it to my Grandmother or his 2 daughters (my Mother and Aunt), so I never gleaned any information from them and they have all passed on now. He originally signed up with the ASC in 1915, but how and why he transferred to the MGC, along with the "Where?" he was wounded in action all remain a mystery to me. I have yet to try and obtain his service record and hope to start the search in the near future. His medal card contains codes and numbers that may be interpreted, but remain a mystery to me.

If you have any specific advice or leads that I might follow, I would be pleased to follow them up.

Thank you for your time and sharing of experience.

My regards, Bill