1st Ypres - opinions on titles please

[Jim Hastings]

Dear All,

In an effort to improve my scant knowledge of the 1914 period I'm looking to get a book on 1st Ypres. An Amazon check has come across:

• Ypres: The First Battle 1914 by Ian FW Beckett
  
• Ypres, 1914: Death of an Army by Antony Farrar Hockley
  
• Wipers, First Battle of Ypres by Tim Carew
  

I would appreciate forum members opinions reference these works - I am looking for something clearly written with first hand accounts. All three seem to be roughly the same length.

I know a lot is down to personal choice, but I'd value any thoughts, especially from any of you who have read more than one of these titles, before I decide which one to purchase.

Many thanks

Jim

[pmaasz]

You could look at 'From Mons to Ypres with General French' by Frederic Coleman. This is available to read online at:

http://archive.org/details/frommonstoypresw00coleuoft

It is a very readable personal account with lots of info that doesn't appear in official histories. Ypres features from about p.250 onwards.

[Jim Hastings]

Thank you very much pmaasz, appreciate you passing that on

cheers

Jim

[Cockney]

An excellent starter is the Osprey Campaign title: "First Ypres 1914" by David Lomas. It is a clear and concise summary with some good maps and beautiful illustrations by Ed Dovey. Reasonably priced too and a good companion to "Mons 1914" in the same series and by the same author.

[JimSmithson]

Ypres: The First Battle 1914 by Ian FW Beckett

Ypres, 1914: Death of an Army by Antony Farrar Hockley

Wipers, First Battle of Ypres by Tim Carew

Hi Jim

The first of the 3 you give is the more up to date and would be a good purchase. The other 2 are quite dated now but the advantage is that you can probably pick up copies of them for next to nothing, I don't know them so it would be wrong of me to comment on quality. What I would recommend is adding Jack Sheldon's Ypres 1914 book to your list though and get a real feel for both sides.

Jim

[SteveMarsdin]

Hi Jim

What I would recommend is adding Jack Sheldon's Ypres 1914 book to your list though and get a real feel for both sides.

Jim

I'd endorse Jim's addition of Jack's book, also for a feel of the magnitude of the French and Belgian contribution,

[Phil Evans]

Jim,

I have read both Beckett and Farrar-Hockley and would agree with Jim that Beckett's book is a more up-to-date approach, but given that Farrar-Hockley (and Carew) can be picked up cheap, I certainly wouldn't dismiss them. Neither of the two I have read though have extensive first hand accounts, if that is primarily what you are looking for.

I have just finished a first read of Jack's book and again endorse Jim and Steve's views. There are plenty of first hand accounts as well. The portrayal of the hardships experienced comes over particularly well. It does feel strange though, to turn yourself around and come from the other direction. There is a lot packed into the book and I certainly could not take it all in, which is probably more due to the way and when I read. However, from the way it is set out, it is easy to go back to a time and a location and study it in more depth later.

Phil

[Jim Hastings]

Gentlemen, thank you very much for your advice and effort spent, it is appreciated.

Cockney Sparrow I had not thought of the Osprey series, thank you, think I may get down to one of the bigger books shops and see what they cover for WW1 generally as well as this period and have a look at their format - I do like artwork/pictures/photographs in books, adds to building the events in my minds-eye.

I was erring towards Beckett because his work is up-to-date, but you're right that FH and Carew are quite cheap. Had not thought of looking at other things from the other end of "the two way range" and have not read any of Jack's work before although know, from this forum and elsewhere, that they are highly aclaimed - you're right, always best - for historical accuracy if nothing else - to observe things from both sides, so thank you for your recommendations Jim / Steve / Phil. Think from my previous readings I have become rather 'BEF-centric' and need to broaden to take in the German, French and Belgian contribution.

So, again, thank you all, a very thought provoking post

All the best

Jim

[Crunchy]

Jim,

Look them up on Bookfinder.com http://www.bookfinder.com/

There are plenty of used copies. Carew's and Farrar Hockley's for about a fiver, and Beckett's around the 11 to 12 quid mark, including postage.

Regards

Chris

[Jim Hastings]

Thanks Chris,

Managed to find Carew's and FH's for 1p (plus postage) so about £6 the pair! Might as well buy the lot!! Only problem now is sneaking the Missus' marketing/ cookery/ baby books off 'her' shelf to put my new Great War titles on (may have to hide frying pan/rolling pin/garden spade again!). I could try and get the books from the library but I never like giving them back and prefer to buy my own.

Have a good day and thank you for posting

Jim

[Crunchy]

My pleasure Jim. Where did you get them for that price? I will change my book search site!!!!

regards

Chris

[Phil Evans]

My pleasure Jim. Where did you get them for that price? I will change my book search site!!!!

regards

Chris

So will I

I usually buy 2nd hand and there are times when I've found it cheaper to import books from the States than pay UK prices plus some of the dealers inflated postage charges.

Phil

[spof]

So will I

Me three!

[Jim Hastings]

I found them on Amazon, I always buy second hand if i can as I'm more interested in what the words tell me than what the cover is like, both copies were classed in 'good' condition. Manged to get Terraine's 'Western Front 1914-18' (as per previous post Chris), FH and Carew's Ypres and Holmes 'Riding the retreat' for under £12 inc p&p - happy as a pig in mud

I've had to get books in from the States for the same reason too Phil, but so far been lucky and not WW1 ones but ones for my degree.

... the missus won't be too happy though so I'll have to ambush the postie before she sees him coming haha

Sure there are more on for those prices chaps, not sure what postage they charge for Australia though? Is that the normal rub Chris and SPOF?

Best wishes

Jim

[spof]

Jim

I actually live in London so postage isn't normally an issue for me. For most books I need from Australia, I either wait for familyto send them for birthdays etc. or they'll be released here.Sometimes, like Chris's recent excellent book, I just bite the bullet.

Lime most of us here, it is not getting the books that is the problem.....it is the 5 foot high pile of ones to read!

Glen

[Phil Evans]

Jim,

I believe Amazon imposes fixed postal rates for it's outside dealers, therefore to be competitive they have to vitually give the book away on paper to look competitive.

A good deal all the same.

Phil

PS Glen - glad to see the Maths is improving

[Jim Hastings]

Know what you mean about the 5 foot pile! I started reading Lyn MacDonald when I left the 'mob' and only had three of her books in my WW1 library until 2011 when I did an OU Total War course and that just re-ignited my interest madly - combined with tracing the war service of my family - and I now have seventy-seven last count and five more on way and i've only dipped into most for academic or for checking out particular events purposes... But made conscious effort recently to start reading them all and methodically - hence why getting 1914 books and will start there and work through chronologically (well that's the plan!!) ...

... bet I just buy more to add to pile!!

All the best

Jim

[Crunchy]

Thanks Jim. The postage to Australia kills us getting at a good price, but they are still cheaper than many sources over here where the price of even second hand books is expensive. Good to see you get such a good deal. Tell the wife how much you saved, that's always the response I get from my wife when she comes home with a mass of purchases from the sales

Regards

Chris

[spof]

Fleabay isn't bad either. I got a 1st Edition of Lyn MAcdoanld's 1915 for under a fiver and an almost mint hardback Indian Corps in France for about £40 less than NMP were offering.

Chris

Have you looked at The Book Depository? Apart from the chance to make bad jokes about Texas, they have free shipping worldwide. Their search engine isn't that good but they are also in ABEBooks (via the Forum link). They also do Print on Demand for more obscure books long out of print. Some may be on archive.org etc. but sometimes a printed book is the only option.

Glen

[Crunchy]

Hi Glen,

Many thanks for this. I hadn't heard of Fleabay.

Others sites for used books are http://www.usedbooksearch.co.uk/

and http://www.betterworldbooks.com/

The latter also has free postage, but I find you have to look around to get the best price vis a vis the condition of the book.

Yes I do use The Book Depository for new books, they are very good.

Thanks also for your kind comment on our book. I am glad you are enjoying it, and I hope you find it useful.

Regards

Chris

[SWorrall]

Lyn MacDonald's '1914: The days of hope' is long on compelling personal testimony, as you would expect.

But short on critical assessment, again as you would expect. Because they are veterans 'They were there', everything is taken as being truth, no matter what.

Buy, but beware.

Simon.

[mhurst]

Jim,

For personal accounts you should read both "There's A Devil In the Drum" by John Lucy and "Fifteen Rounds A Minute" by "Ma" Jeffreys. The first is a view from the ranks, while the latter gives an officer's perspective.

Both are currently in print.

Melvin

[Jim Hastings]

Thank you Melvin,

Funnily enough my reponse to my good lady's complaint that she never knows what to get me was replied with

'Devil in a Drum' by John Lucy ... resulted in a vague expression until a less than subtle direction pointing on Amazon by me helped her see what I meant - her reply "Oh ANOTHER WW1 book"

Cheers for the recommendations, one and all

Jim

[Marilyne]

Jim,

I read only the two first books, the third is still on my list... for a far future.

with Beckette, I have a problem: I read his The Great War, on which i made following comment in my bibliography:

It Is the sort of “touche à tout” books, that goes through all the aspects of the war. It presupposes a general knowledge of the history and the main battles. [...] Sometimes a bit too “general”, and definitely too many numbers and statistics. He has so many aspects that he cannot go too deep in them. Opens questions to be further analyzed. Epilogue/conclusion... not really !!

Based on this, I started "Ypres" with mixed feelings. I found it better written than "The GW" but still very clinical, throwing around a lot of unit numbers and facts and statistics... the reader ends up lost in so many information that sometimes has no link with the lines above or beneath.

"Death of an army" was for me a better and easier read. It sees the facts in the bigger picture.

If I can make another suggestion on Ypres, first and second: read "Massacre of the Innocents" , the Crofton Diaries. It gives a very good day- by - day insight in the life of a officer at first and second ypres. Also remarklable about this book is the view of the author of these diaries on the strategy of the British army and his personnal opinion on a lot of issues and battles.

hope this was helpfull,

Marilyne

[Jim Hastings]

Many thanks Marilyne, appreciated.

I started 'Wipers' the other day and was quickly drawn into Carew's style. I dipped into 'Death of an Army' too, just for tasters, very readable it seems but Carew seems to hold the balance so far, but very early days to make judgements.

Interesting points about Beckett's work - whereas I recognise statistics are essential for historical interpretation I dislike being bombarded with them in, as you put it, a clinical way - that may be a book for a library loan one day.

Just had a look at the Crofton Diaries, interesting, as not one I'd normally go for, but has great reviews (maybe another one for Christmas to hint to the wife haha!)

Thanks again one and all, appreciate your time and effort

All the best

Jim