First Artillery rounds fired Aug 1914

[ianjonesncl]

When were the first artillery rounds fired in August 1914 and by whom ?

Farndale:History of Royal Regiment of Artillery Western Front (page 10)

Whilst describing the contact by C Squadron 4th Dragoons on 22nd August he states:

"it was at 11:00 hours on the 23rd August that E battery RHA, commanded by Major AS Forman, came into action at Bray some four miles north east of Harmignies and fired the first artllery round of the war"

The Official History of the Great WarMilitary Operations France & Belgium 1914 volume 1 (page 63)

Describes the contact by C Squadron 4th Dragoons contact 22nd August and records

"The 3rd Cavalry Brigade, in support of the 5th, remained about Bray, two miles in the rear, whence D and E Batteries RHA fired a few shells"

Is Farndale's date incorrect ?

Ian

[centurion]

I assume you mean the first British rounds in August 1914?

[ianjonesncl]

I assume you mean the first British rounds in August 1914?

Yes

[lostinspace]

Ian,

It seems that the OH is correct - I found an old copy of "After the Battle" that has an article called "Gunners Turn the Clock Back" (issue # 46), it describes the action of the 4th Dragoon Guards (22 August) and then says "To the right of them, guns of the Royal Horse Artillery commenced firing from the fields amidst the slag heaps littering the vicinity of Peronnes. A small stone now marks the site where 'E' Battery fired the first shell of the First World War at the battle of Mons - the fields having since become part of the grounds of a spark plug factory - and on August 22 of this year members of today's 'E' Battery, 1st Regiment of Royal Horse Artillery, travelled there from their base in Germany to commemorate the unit's historic part in the opening stages of the fighting." No footnotes but since a stone was placed (hopefully it is still there, the article is from 1984) I would think that the location and date should be accurate.

Regards,

Dave

[ianjonesncl]

Dave

Many thanks for the reply - much appreciated, particulary as your source references the actual location of the event.

I am currently looking at the RA in 1914, and certainly all my readings suggested that 22nd August was the correct date. As often happens I later came across a previous post which I had missed, which also includes a painting of the event.

 

and there is even a picture on wikki of the actual gun at the IWM in 1925

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:E_Battery_13_pounder_IWM_1925_Q_42422.jpg

However.....when one is questioning a former member of E Battery RHA, former CO 1 RHA, former Honorary Colonel 1 RHA, and a former Master Gunner of St James, it is reassuring to have someone validate this error.

Ian

[ianjonesncl]

Ian,

It seems that the OH is correct - I found an old copy of "After the Battle" that has an article called "Gunners Turn the Clock Back" (issue # 46), it describes the action of the 4th Dragoon Guards (22 August) and then says "To the right of them, guns of the Royal Horse Artillery commenced firing from the fields amidst the slag heaps littering the vicinity of Peronnes. A small stone now marks the site where 'E' Battery fired the first shell of the First World War at the battle of Mons - the fields having since become part of the grounds of a spark plug factory - and on August 22 of this year members of today's 'E' Battery, 1st Regiment of Royal Horse Artillery, travelled there from their base in Germany to commemorate the unit's historic part in the opening stages of the fighting." No footnotes but since a stone was placed (hopefully it is still there, the article is from 1984) I would think that the location and date should be accurate.

Regards,

Dave

Dave

I followed up the reference to the stone on google maps - looks like a good excuse for a visit.

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/42078422 50° 25' 36.62" N 4° 7' 53.45" E

Again many thanks.

Ian

[lostinspace]

Ian,

You're welcome, drove me crazy for a while, knew I had the article but couldn't remember where as "After the Battle" concentrates on WWII, not WWI. Having been in 'E' Battery post WWII you would think Farndale should have the right date, probably an error in the publication process.

Regards,

Dave

[BPJermyn]

Dave

Many thanks for the reply - much appreciated, particulary as your source references the actual location of the event.

I am currently looking at the RA in 1914, and certainly all my readings suggested that 22nd August was the correct date. As often happens I later came across a previous post which I had missed, which also includes a painting of the event.

http://1914-1918.inv...showtopic=35954

and there is even a picture on wikki of the actual gun at the IWM in 1925

http://en.wikipedia....925_Q_42422.jpg

However.....when one is questioning a former member of E Battery RHA, former CO 1 RHA, former Honorary Colonel 1 RHA, and a former Master Gunner of St James, it is reassuring to have someone validate this error.

Ian

I find it interesting, and I’m somewhat amazed, that this artillery piece survived the entire war.

[ianjonesncl]

Investigating further it looks like the gun is at the Imperial War Museum North in Manchester

http://ubique-matt.blogspot.co.uk/2010/12/iwmn-3.html

[rflory]

Actually Farndale made two mistakes: the date should be 22 August and the name of the E Battery, RHA commander was actually Major A B Forman (Arthur Bacon Forman) who later in the war was a Brigadier General. His orders and medals are shown below. The gun is in the IWM and the RA shot a number of commemorative shoots (with blanks) at the location in Bray in the 1960s and 1970s which were featured on the cover of Gunner magazine.

[ianjonesncl]

Dick

Many thanks for the information.

Two errors which would appear to have gone unchecked.

Ian

[Auimfo]

I know the plaque probably is meant to refer to the British Army on the Western Front but it still reads incorrectly.

'E' Battery of the Royal Horse Artillery did not fire the first artillery shell of the Great War.

As far as I'm aware, the honour of firing the first shot (artillery or otherwise) after the decaration of war on 4th August belongs to the 4.7" Mark VII Naval Gun emplacement 'B1' at Fort Nepean in Melbourne Australia. Situated on either side of the heads at the entrance to Port Philip Bay, Fort Queenscliff and Fort Nepean guarded Melbourne.

On 5 August 1914, within minutes of receiving news about the declaration of war, the German ship SS Pfalz attempted to escape. Lieutenant-Colonel Sandford at Fort Queenscliff gave an order to Lieutenant C Morris, the Fire Commander at Fort Nepean, to either stop her or sink her. After the German ship ignored signals to halt, the B1 gun fired across her bow and she was forced to return to port.

Cheers,

Tim L.

[ianjonesncl]

I know the plaque probably is meant to refer to the British Army on the Western Front but it still reads incorrectly.

'E' Battery of the Royal Horse Artillery did not fire the first artillery shell of the Great War.

As far as I'm aware, the honour of firing the first shot (artillery or otherwise) after the decaration of war on 4th August belongs to the 4.7" Mark VII Naval Gun emplacement 'B1' at Fort Nepean in Melbourne Australia. Situated on either side of the heads at the entrance to Port Philip Bay, Fort Queenscliff and Fort Nepean guarded Melbourne.

Tim L.

Tim

Many thanks for this important clarification.

Interestingly there as a Christmas card for E Battery RHA on e-bay at the moment on which is a photograph of no 4 Gun E Battery RHA which records “ fired the first shot of the BEF in France August 22^nd 1914”

i think this is a more accurate statement..

The card also records “This gun is still in the battery going strong”, a hand written comment indicates the sentiment of its sender is “I hope it will soon fire the ‘last’ also.

[Gallia Belgica]

Hello.

I know of a photograph showing a 13-pounder field gun with a sergeant standing beside it. In the middle of the attached caisson, reads [E.R.H.A. Cav. Div.] and the letter 'D' in the top left corner. On the reverse of the photograph in pencil, reads - [The gun that fired first round in the war Aug 21 1914].

I have been told that this is a photograph of No. 4 gun, E Battery, Royal Horse Artillery. The first gun to be fired by the British nation on the Western Front. I have yet to identify the sergeant.

[Ken S.]

I wonder if it would be possible to find out what German unit they were firing upon.

[Robgarrood]

They were engaging the 77mm Guns of the 4th Corps Artillery reserve and an advancing force of enemy Jeager light infantry. I have the Exact location of where the Battery were, were the the German Artillery units were and the route the Jeager took in their advance towards the Scots Greys and the 16th Lancers, who E Battery were firing in support of. Interesting to Note that the Guns were not effective. The 13 Pdr has a range of 5Km, but at max charge, they could not reach the germans at a paultry 3.5km. We suspect this is because the rounds of the inital engagement were made in 1908 and the powder inside was degraded, thus not capable of burning at the temperature is was intended to.

I can confirm the Detachment names;

Section Commander Lt RL Palmer

Number 1 Sgt W Carter, not E as I originally stated!

No.2 Gnr Jenkins

No.3 Gnr Lee (actually fired the gun)

No.4 Gnr Ifould

N0.5 Bdr King (KIA 8th September 1914) a round penetrated the shield and exploded near the handspike killing him.

No.6 Gnr Andrews

No.7 Bdr Osborn

Gnr Bates was left section, with Walwyn. I should be careful here...... (i Believe) He did not fire the Gun as stated in the book.

[Loader]

I remember a small article in my local paper in the US in 1964 saying that a unit of the British RA had gone back to Belgium to fire a shot from the spot where E Bty, RHA had fired the first artillery shot of the British army in WW1. No identity of the unit making the commemoration but almost certainly the current ( at the time) successor of E Bty, RHA.

[Dazscuba]

I was one of the gunners who attended in 1984 with E Battery but being 18 years old did not see the significance of this and it’s only with age you realise. 
does anybody know the exact location of the stone/ plaque marker for this please as I am visiting this area next year and would love to attend again with a little more knowledge. 
TIA

[Old Forge]

E Battery hold the cartridge case from the first round, scored heavily with the crude inscription ‘1st round’. It was kept in the gun’s trail leg throughout the war.

E Battery celebrates its foundation on the first weekend of November each year. Following a historical presentation by one of the officers in 1987, the then Battery Commander (BC) summed up at the end and concluded with:

BC - ’Of course, we all know that E Battery fired - what?’

Shout from the audience - ‘The first round of the First World War!!’

BC - ‘When?’

Shout from the audience - ‘1914!!’

BC - ’At?’

Puzzled voice from the audience - ‘Er … at the enemy, sir.’

Cheers,

Richard

[ianjonesncl]

On 30/09/2023 at 14:37, Dazscuba said:

I was one of the gunners who attended in 1984 with E Battery but being 18 years old did not see the significance of this and it’s only with age you realise. 
does anybody know the exact location of the stone/ plaque marker for this please as I am visiting this area next year and would love to attend again with a little more knowledge. 
TIA

Northumbrian Gunner: Mons - First British Artillery round on Western Front

The plaque is located on an industrial estate between BRAY and BINCHE on the N27 leading to PERRONNES.

Edited 2 October , 2023 by ianjonesncl

[Dazscuba]

Gents thank you very much for this