Joseph Arthur Nadin, Machine Gun Corps

[cj1992]

I'm trying to clarify details about Joseph Arthur Nadin, who was killed in action on the first day of the Battle of the Somme.

It seems that he started off in the King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry and later transferred to the Machine Gun Corps.

His medal card shows him as a Private in the K.O.Y.L.I., with regiment number 8/13413. What does the prefix 8 refer to? Is it the 8^th Battalion?. His medal card indicated that he landed in France on 26 August 1915 and I have found reference on The Long, Long Trail that the 8^th Battalion landed at Boulogne in August 1915.

I don't know when he joined the Machine Gun Corps. His medal card shows regiment number 22088 and 2088 in the M.G.C. Is there any significance to the two different numbers? I've had a look on the CWGC site and his number is shown as 22088 and it quotes him as being in the 70th Bn. Machine Gun Corps (Infantry). I can't seem to find any specific references to the 70^th Bn and I would be interested to know their whereabouts during the battle and if possible the events from him landing in France to being killed on 1^st July 1916. Any pointers would be very much appreciated.

[kenf48]

A fair amount of guess work (but some facts) the MGC began numbering at 3000 so he could not have been 2088 (unless he was in the Motor Machine Gun Corps so I think you can put that down to a clerical error.

George Coppard in 'With a machine gun to Cambrai' enlisted in the Queen's and trained as a Vickers Gunner, transferring to the MGC but remaining alongside his original regiment. He reports "on the 5th February 1916 the machine gun section of the 6th Queen's was brigaded into the 37th Machine Gun Company of the MGC".

As you have already looked at the LLT you will have seen 8th KOYLI was in 70th Brigade alongside 70th MG Company so we can speculate he was alongside his former comrades (like Coppard).

http://www.1914-1918.net/8div.htm

On the 1st July the 8th KOYLI and the rest of the Brigade (and the 8th Division) were involved in the attack on Ovillers Spur. - "attacking from in front of Authille Wood good progress was quickly made by the leading waves and the German first line entered. Following waves came under heavy machine gun fire from both flanks losing 50% while crossing No Man's Land. Close quarter fighting in German second and third lines. Withdrew early afternoon all officers had become casualties." Roy Westlake Tracing British Battalions on the Somme (he makes no mention of the MGC). The story was much the same for the other Battalions engaged e.g. 9th York and Lancaster 25 officers and 736 OR attacked just 180 returned.

As for events leading up to the 1/7 I'd suggest he went overseas with the 8th Bn KOYLI it's probable he was brigaded around the same time as Coppard who reports most of the time up until the end of June was spent training, generally there was little activity during the winter months but youu would need to consult the war diary of the 8th KOYLI.

As I say a lot of the above is guesswork but seems a good place to start.

Ken

EDIT Had a quick look at SDGW unfortunately does not give Bn confirms YLI and enlistment in Sheffield

[deano]

If he is the J.A. Nadin of 72 Spencer Road, Heeley, Sheffield, there is a couple of images of him, if you dont have one, in the 9/8/16 and 19/9/16 editions of the Sheffield Independent newsepaper, you can view and copy the images at Sheffield's Local Studies Library.

Dean.

[SFayers]

The 70th Battalion MGC reference is a clerical error. (The MGC battalions didn't form until early 1918. You often see this sort of error wrt MGC casualties on the CWGC, with Battalion being 'swapped' for Company and vise versa). At the time of his death your man was actually with 70th Machine Gun Company of 70th Infantry Brigade (of which, as Ken mentions, 8th KOYLI was part). The brigade was part of 23rd Division when it landed in France in late August 1915, then, as part of a move to familiarise New Army troops with frontline duties, 70th Brigade was transferred to 8th Division and was with this division for the start of the Battle of the Somme. On the 17th July 1916 70th Infantry Brigade moved back to 23rd Division.

I'd suggest that Joseph originally served in the machine gun section of 8th KOYLI and was transferred to 70th MG Company, along with his comrades and machine gunners from other battalions of the brigade, when the MGC was formed.

All the best

Steve

[cj1992]

Hi Ken, Dean and Steve.

Many thanks for the information. I'm gradually managing to put together a broader picture and you have included some really useful details in your replies.

Kind regards

Chris.

[cj1992]

Hi Dean.

That's brilliant news. The address matches the one that I've got so it certainly seems to be the correct man but unfortunately I'm quite a distance from Sheffield so I don't know when I'll be able to get to see the pictures. Not to worry, at least I've got it on record now so whenever I do manage to get over there I can pop in and hopefully get some copies.

Kind regards

Chris.

If he is the J.A. Nadin of 72 Spencer Road, Heeley, Sheffield, there is a couple of images of him, if you dont have one, in the 9/8/16 and 19/9/16 editions of the Sheffield Independent newsepaper, you can view and copy the images at Sheffield's Local Studies Library.

Dean.

[SFayers]

No worries Chris,

Best of luck with your search.

All th best

Steve

[nadend]

I'm trying to clarify details about Joseph Arthur Nadin, who was killed in action on the first day of the Battle of the Somme...

I've had a look on the CWGC site... killed on 1^st July 1916...

Hi Chris,

I have visited Joseph's grave at Blighty Valley Cemetery a few times in recent years, and have photographs of his grave. If you want a copy, please send me a private message (PM) with your e-mail address, I will gladly send them to you.

My interest is family history. I've been researching the Naden/Nadin/Neden/Nedin surname for many years now. I've not looked at Joseph's family in any detail, but I'm fairly certain I should be able to find some information if you have not researched his family yourself.

All the best

Dave

[nadend]

The 70th Battalion MGC reference is a clerical error. (The MGC battalions didn't form until early 1918. You often see this sort of error wrt MGC casualties on the CWGC, with Battalion being 'swapped' for Company and vise versa). At the time of his death your man was actually with 70th Machine Gun Company of 70th Infantry Brigade (of which, as Ken mentions, 8th KOYLI was part). The brigade was part of 23rd Division when it landed in France in late August 1915, then, as part of a move to familiarise New Army troops with frontline duties, 70th Brigade was transferred to 8th Division and was with this division for the start of the Battle of the Somme. On the 17th July 1916 70th Infantry Brigade moved back to 23rd Division.

I'd suggest that Joseph originally served in the machine gun section of 8th KOYLI and was transferred to 70th MG Company, along with his comrades and machine gunners from other battalions of the brigade, when the MGC was formed.

All the best

Steve

Hi,

The LLT also mentions the 70th Machine Gun Company joined the 70th Brigade, then part of the 8th Division, on 5th March 1916, almost 4 months before the Battle of the Somme began. The 70th Brigade later returned back to the 23rd Division on 17th July 1916 during the battle, and after Joseph's death. I'm guessing the (recently formed?) 70th MGC and Joseph probably arrived back in France in March 1916 after training in England.

I'm only an amateur when it comes to military units and formations, so please don't shout at me...

Dave

[nadend]

I'm trying to clarify details about Joseph Arthur Nadin... Machine Gun Corps.

Hi Chris,

Just remembered...

There is a MGC Book of Remembrance and other MGC memorials at St. Wulfram's Church, Grantham, Lincolnshire. Joseph's name is probably commemorated in this book. The book is contained in a locked glass case within the church, the page on display being changed every day. However, if you wanted to see Joseph's entry, it would be wise to contact the church before you visit to arrange for the case to be unlocked. I went "on spec" a few years ago and was unlucky, the key holder wasn't there.

I guess Grantham, or somewhere nearby, was the main training base for the MGC.

Also, Joseph's name probably appears on at least one war memorial in the Sheffield area, and I daresay several. Intake was a suburb to the south-east of the city centre. You may be lucky and find a photograph somewhere on the web.

Good luck...

Dave

[Guest cjk16666]

hi i accidently found this forum , i was checking some details and this conversation came up , im the great niece of joseph nadin , i have visited his grave some years ago and my children , his great great nephews visited his grave last year , my dad , has a letter , which was wriiten by joseph before he died .

my dad wanted me to find out what has happened to his medal , as he is sure that josephs parents never recieved it , is there any way of me finding any information regarding this , many thanks .

[nadend]

hi i accidently found this forum , i was checking some details and this conversation came up , im the great niece of joseph nadin , i have visited his grave some years ago and my children , his great great nephews visited his grave last year , my dad , has a letter , which was wriiten by joseph before he died .

my dad wanted me to find out what has happened to his medal , as he is sure that josephs parents never recieved it , is there any way of me finding any information regarding this , many thanks .

Hi,

Joseph has both a Medal Index Card (MIC, see above) and a Medal Roll entry which can be seen online. The 3 medals are normally sent out by his Army Pay Office automatically, i.e. the soldier or his next of kin do not have to apply for the medals. They was delivered by post - registered delivery. If not delivered for some reason, the fact is normally recorded on the MIC (denoted by the code 1743). It appears the medals was delivered to his next of kin, though we cannot be certain.

Also online is Joseph's Soldiers Effects record which, like a will, names the recipient of his 'estate'. The named recipient is Joseph's father, 114 Sergeant Alfred Nadin, 4th Reserve Bn., York & Lancaster Regiment, who also served during WW1. My guess is that Joseph's medals was delivered to his father Alfred, his 1915 Star (MGC) in October 1919, and his BWM & VM (KOYLI) in February 1920.

Dave