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Remembered Today:

Observations of Bayonets


shippingsteel

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Here are a few new additions for you chaps-

1st question- what does the V&N stand for on the scabbard stud on the M1895?

2nd question- is there any way of identifying which country used the M1912 from the serial numbers on the end of the pommel/scabbard stud?

lastly- which thread do I post the german ersatz &2 turk ersatz new additions?

Cheers,

Aleck

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1st question- what does the V&N stand for on the scabbard stud on the M1895?

2nd question- is there any way of identifying which country used the M1912 from the serial numbers on the end of the pommel/scabbard stud?

lastly- which thread do I post the german ersatz &2 turk ersatz new additions?

The V&N stands for the contractor Vogel & Noot of Wartberg who made scabbards for the Austrian M1895. For anything about these bayonets see HERE

I don't know much about those serial numbers, the export bayonets that didn't go to their original destination are a complete mystery to me, so no help at all.

I think you could probably start your own thread Aleck ... titled Sawdoc's 'British & Colonial' bayonet collection of bayonets that are neither British or Colonial.! :D

PS. And oh, did I mention you can get counselling for that ... at this stage I'm pretty sure it could be the cheaper option. (Where did I put that damn disclaimer :unsure: )

Cheers, S>S

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Aleck,

A quickie. You probably know this, but just in case... the bottom one has been 'Turked' in the 1950's to allow it fit onto a Garand.

Got to get back to work now

Trajan

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I managed to break the habbit So it is possible guys :o:lol: I haven't bought a bayonet for around 4 months now, mainly as I drained the best source I had all of the WW1 bayonets I could afford. That coupled with I've taken up .22LR target shooting and car payments means my disposable income is at an all time low. Though come June I should get my yearly bonus (£500) from work, then comes a spending spree :D

Gaz

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S/S, think I may have to take the therapy option as also have these 2 wee beauties plus a venezuelan M1900 winging there way here.

In my defence the largest part of my collection is brit/colonial (about 3 times the size of the 30 plus turks that have sneaked in) :whistle:

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I managed to break the habbit So it is possible guys ... I haven't bought a bayonet for around 4 months now, mainly as I drained the best source I had all of the WW1 bayonets I could afford. That coupled with I've taken up .22LR target shooting and car payments means my disposable income is at an all time low. Though come June I should get my yearly bonus (£500) from work, then comes a spending spree :D

Yeah I'm trying to cut back a bit myself, problem is my storages are full to capacity. So I have been limiting myself to only the 'absolute quality' bargains ... :thumbsup:

But that little hiatus may be a thing of the past now, as I have just purchased and installed a completely new set of drawers, couldn't resist it was on special.!

Hey that rimfire shooting sounds like fun. I just love the 22's - still got my original Brno from 30 years ago plus a few more - my boys use them hunting rabbits.!

Cheers, S>S

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Trajan,

thats the 2nd 1 of those garand bayonets, couldnt resist it for the price, pity you cant get bayonets via post over there mate.

Here are the other 3 ersatz that I picked up.

Gaz, wish I had the willpower to keep away from fairs & more importantly bar myself from online bayonet shopping :blush:

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  • 1 month later...

Time to crank up this old thread again - you see some bloke wanted me to post these couple of pics of his bayonet up for some comments.

Even had to resize the 'megabiscuits' out of the darn things to get them to fit ... anyway my opinion is its a repro but what do you guys think.? :whistle:

Cheers, S>S

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And the reverse view - see what I mean, looks pretty dodgy don't you think ... nice timber background though.! :lol:

Cheers, S>S

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Guest Smokey

Hi Gents, my first post here for several years, even forgot my old username so the post count starts again.

SS, I'll take that dirty 'ol repro '07 off your hands. :ph34r:

Heres a brief pic of a few of mine, I may have posted this here a long time ago, will post more details as time permits.

Cheers, Smokey.

P'13 Remington, 1916.

P'07 Orange, 1943.

P'07 Sanderson, 1909.

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The same, naked.

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Hi Smokey, and welcome back.! And feel free to keep posting up bayonets like that anytime you like - they are very impressive (i'm salivating.!) :thumbsup:

I'm going to take a guess and say that you're an Aussie.? Aussie bayonets with some Mangrovite scabbards and an early Aussie hookie - sweet ...

I'll have to get a closer look at that Sanderson if you don't mind, has it got any MD markings on the crossguard.? And the month of manufacture.?

They are an outstanding group of bayonets and are a credit to you - in extremely good condition with all that bluing still intact - I'm really lovin this.! :w00t:

Cheers, S>S

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Even with quite high quality pictures it is hard to judge, I recently sent a picture of the reg number of an early 1980's Seiko diving watch to a buyer and then got into an argument which nearly cost me a few hundred quid in a sale because the numbers looked completely different in the picture.

Anyway heres the 2 that came very early on in my collecting career, I'm not sure if there is any statute of limitations but I filched them. One has intrigued me for a while.

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And a nice standard.

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Guest Smokey

Thanks SS,

more pics later, am at work at the moment.

Yeah mate, 6MD............

The Sanderson has a bit of a story to go with it, hence the reason I posted it, hopefully you can all give your thoughts. Will drag out what I know (and what I think I know) tomorrow, post some pics and see what we come up with.

To begin with here's the story.

I was talking to this bloke at the pub about 10 years ago who reckoned he had something special, mentioned something about a WW1 bayonet and a hook thing, had it since he was a kid apparently. I thought 'yeah right mate', everyone thinks they've got Simpsons Gallipoli bayo, anyway we haggled over price & settled on $100, depending on condition, sight unseen. When I went to collect it, it turned out to be a '09 dated Sanderson hookie, complete with teardrop scabbard, in quite good nick but, thankfully, covered in about 50 years of oil & grime. But, he'd changed his mind, got cold feet about the sale, thought it might be worth a bit more, so I offered him another $50, final offer. He accepted, I gave him his cash, he couldn't wait to get back to the pub, I couldn't wait to get home before he changed his mind again.

A quick clean of the bayonet and scabbard revealed both to be in excellent original condition and (I couldn't believe it) matching numbers on scabbard and bayonet. I thought to myself 'it doesn't get much better than this', but then, with a little more cleaning, it did..............

Sorry to cut the story short guys but it's knock off time at work, chapter 2 tomorrow........

Cheers, Smokey. :thumbsup:

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Smokey,

Welcome - and I think the phrase re: the hookie is 'You lucky jammy ba**a*d, you'!

Mind you, today I got a 1874 Peabody leather scabbard for my 1874 scabbard-less Peabody bayonet for the equivalent of only UKL 20... :whistle:

Trajan

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I found my old username.........

Anyway, back to the story. So I was cleaning the grime off the scabbard leather when faint lines started to appear which turned out to be a guys name and date, written in lead pencil on the leather, 'David Ford November 10th 1915'. A search of the Nominal Rolls confirmed this chap was with the AIF , after getting his service records it seems he enlisted September 2nd 1916 and served in France in 1917 (23rd March to 16th July) with the 6th Brigade, 22nd Infantry Batallion, 16th reinforcements, RTA September 10th 1917 and was discharged MU on January 16th 1918.

A few pics..........

Pattern 1907 British Mark 1 Sword bayonet, Edward VII Royal Cypher, manufacture (or issue ) date December 1909, made by Sanderson.

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Broad arrow, bend test X and Enfield RSAF inspection marks Crown/X5/E, Crown/Y6/E and Crown/Y5/E.

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So there you are, one of my treasures. Any questions or comments welcome. A few more pics to come soon.....

Cheers, Smokey. :thumbsup:

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Bayonet rack number T394, corresponds to scabbard and hopefully rifle.

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Matching scabbard rack number T394.

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Scabbard, P1907 Mk 2, sold out of service, broad arrow, EFD (RSAF Enfield manufacture), Crown/47/E (RSAF Enfield inspection mark), '09 manufacture year.

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Name & date on the scabbard, hard to distinguish even in real life.

DAVID

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FORD

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Nov 10th 1915

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Great story Smokey - and what a coincidence, I just happen to have your bayonets 'brother' from the same batch, also Tasmanian marked (see HERE post #61)

It appears the only difference is that mine stayed in service long enough to get its quillon lopped off, and a bit more wear than yours which is in amazing condition.

I have been doing some research into these early Aussie markings and it is interesting to see how they came out in 'batches' from the British factories production.

The dates of manufacture are always very close together and it seems that each batch was headed to its own individual state, perhaps even ordered separately.?

Its also good to see that T serial stamped on the pommel, as it helps to confirm that the stamp on mine is for Tasmania as well, and also has the 6MD on the guard.

Here is a pic of my ricasso shown below, near enough to be a 'close relation' I should think.! And thanks again for posting your photos - I've enjoyed seeing them.! :thumbsup:

Cheers, S>S

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SS,

they look darn near identical, apart from the amputation of course, which happened regularly in battle....... :whistle:

I'm not convinced the 'T' relates to Tasmania, this bloke (FORD) lived and enlisted in Victoria. This bayo came to Tassie from outback NSW, around Cobar from memory, over 15 years ago. It's amazing how crisp the stamps are on pre-war gear, obviously they took more care when there was no war to distract them.....

Smokey.

PS; does the good condition and dates I've quoted ring any bells?

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They can get around ... as they say, "have legs will travel".! They both have the 6MD marking on the guard which indicates belonging to the 6th Military District at some stage.

The 6th M.D. also happened to be Tasmania, and they both have the T serial on the pommel - so with that said, the logical progression is that the serial also indicates Tassie.!

PS. What does your marking on the guard look like exactly.? I need the numbers to add to my database ...

PPS. My guess is your bayonet never left the country, and was used in a training capacity at home - I'd be looking for a FORD from Tasmania, as those dates don't make sense. :huh:

These guys below could have used our bayonets before the war - Tasmanian militia in training camp circa 1913.

Cheers, S>S

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No SS, this one doesnt have the 6MD stamp. What you see in the pics is it, except for the sold out of service cross on the back side of the pommel.

PS; The dates dont make sense to me either. I read your post here about reserves probably carrying hooked bayonets so I re-read Fords service records today and came across a note (which I missed before) on his attestation papers dated 2/9/16 confirming he was in the Home Service for 188 days before being discharged to join the AIF. Still the dates dont fit. Unless the pencil date really is 1916 or 1917, but I dont think so.

I agree, I don't think it left Australia either. It's in far too good condition to have wallowed around in the mud and shell holes of France for a few months.

No other David Ford to be found on the Nominal Roll, I've already been down that track.....

The other possibility is someone added the name and date later and got it wrong, but I dont want to believe that theory, time to put my head in the sand.... :(

Love the pic!

Smokey.

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Oh right, its just that you mentioned it earlier in post #389, never mind ... oh well, back to square one with that T marking after all (duh, should've noticed the photo)

Hey I'm just looking through some records for David Ford at the AWM - seems there are a few, and one embarked Sydney on November 9th, 1915 ... spooky huh.!

See webpage linked HERE , hope this helps your story along ...

FWIW here is the 6MD/Tasmanian marking on mine, it has the T on the pommel as well - yours is the 2nd that I've seen with the T, same month, year and maker ...

Cheers, S>S

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Sorry mate, wires crossed, I meant I was in the 6MD when you asked if I was Aussie.

I stand corrected on only one David Ford , it's been a few years since I checked the Roll, must have been updated since I received this blokes records in Jan '06.

I better hop too it, might have the wrong bloke after all, thanks for that.............

Smokey. :thumbsup:

PS; whats your thoughts on this OA '43 P07 with D 40645 on the pommel? (wrong era I know, sorry)

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Edited by Smokey in Oz
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Whats your thoughts on this OA '43 P07 with D 40645 on the pommel? (wrong era I know, sorry)

Smokey, in this case having a Lithgow made bayonet, the serial on the pommel is indicating the rifle number to which it was first matched at the factory (easy one.!)

And would you be able to go back to your post and EDIT the font size for us please.? I'm struggling to read that 'fine print' and I'm guessing others would likewise ... :unsure:

And following on about these early Aussie HQ bayonets, I have found the Brit import ones were often marked on the pommel with the State letter and serial number.

Here are some more photos of one that I picked up that's marked for Queensland. Note also same month and date as our Sandersons but this time its a Wilkinson.!

Cheers, S>S

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