ph0ebus Posted 27 April , 2011 Share Posted 27 April , 2011 Hi all, I think I may have discovered the fate of my long-lost great uncle, Moritz Strauß. He was the brother of my great uncle Julius Strauß, born 07 Nov 1897 in Gemünden, whom I have posted about on here before (and whom I am still researching) and the brother of Selma Strauß, born 14 Jan 1904 in Gemünden. I knew nothing about him until very recently, when I happened to reconnect with some distant relations from that branch of the family. On a total hunch this evening, given that I knew Julius served in the German army, I searched Das Online Gedenkbuch (weltkriegsopfer.de) and instantly found the following: Wir erinnern an: Nachname Strauß Vorname Moritz geb. am 19.12.1894 Geburtsort Gemünden Dienstgrad / Beruf Erkennungsmarke Truppenteil 2. I. R. 193 Todes-/Vermisstendatum 04.09.1916 Todesland ------------------ Todes- / Vermisstenort ist uns nicht bekannt ! Todesart Erstbestattungsort Letzte Ruhestätte/Stadt └> dort Grablage Denkmal / Gedenkbuch Jüdische Frontsoldaten (RJF) (Klicken Sie auf den Link für nähere Informationen) └> dort verzeichnet im Gedenkbuch Weitere Infos letzter Wohnort Gemünden Straße The original page can be seen here: Moritz Strauß I have a strong suspicion this is my great uncle. He is about the right age and from Gemünden, as both Julius and Selma were. I am looking for guidance as to how to confirm that this is him. Can someone tell me about 2. I. R. 193 and perhaps tell me if there is a Unit History available? Is this a Prussian Unit? Also, where was 2. I. R. 193 on the day this man died? If this is my great uncle, it would be the first confirmed loss from my father's side of the family from the Great War. Ideas and guidance would be most welcome. Thanks, -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 27 April , 2011 Share Posted 27 April , 2011 Daniel I have a copy of the regimental history: Limburg Oberleutnant d.L. Wilhelm Geschichte des Infanterie-Regiments Nr. 193 Stalling, Oldenburg 1925. The New York Public Library has a large collection of these histories, so you should be able to get hold of it. This Prussian regiment was raised near Laon in August 1915 from contingents found by several other regiments. The name of Musketier Moritz Strauss appears in the Roll of Honour of 2nd Coy 1st Bn. His date and place of birth is as you gave it and his date and place of death was 4.9.16 a.s.W Zweibruecken. I have not seen that abbreviation before, but I take it to stand for 'of his wounds', suggesting that he was casevaced to Germany and died there in hospital. That should give you another point to begin searching. He must have been wounded near Verdun, but it is impossible to be more precise. The regiment was engaged in or around Avocourt Wood on and off from 20 Mar to 22 Aug 16 and was then redeployed to Douaumont, Fleury and Chapitre Wood between 23 Aug and 23 Sep 16, though 1st Bn does not seem to have deployed forward until 29 Aug. This would not allow much time for wounding and transportation all the way back to Germany, so it would appear more likely that he was wounded towards the end of the earlier tour of duty. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 27 April , 2011 Share Posted 27 April , 2011 Daniel This is his grave. I lifted it off the web from www.alemania-judaica.de/gemuenden_sim_friedhof.htm The particular image is .de/images/Images%20184/Gemuenden%20Sim%20Friedhof%20183.jpg Sorry about all the coding, but I invariably have trouble when I try to post a link. The website should give you a good lead into finding out more information. Hope this helps. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 27 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 27 April , 2011 Jack, This immensely helpful...my heartfelt thanks! Now that I know the proper name of the history I can see if NYPL has one. Their recent upgrade of their website has made finding things less easy than before but armed with the proper name I expect better luck is at hand. Given this was a Prussian regiment, I believe the only place I can find recods that might confirm this is my great uncle is LAGeSo, who would have his medical records on file. His father's name should be in the record and that would confirm the ID, assuming I can actually succeed in having a staff person there do a lookup for me. Do you think the Gedenkbuch I referenced in my OP would have any more details in it, or should I just focus on locating the history and coaxing a reply from LAGeSo? I had not heard of that particular work before. Thanks again, Daniel EDIT: It appears NYPL does not have a copy; the nearest copy is at the Library of Congress in Washington DC...dang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 27 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 27 April , 2011 Wow! You found his grave! Now I need to figure out the Hebrew bit at the top of the stone to see what that entails! Even if this is not my great uncle (though I suspect it is) I will try to get his grave location added to the war grave website, as they do not have it. Again, a million thanks! Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 27 April , 2011 Share Posted 27 April , 2011 Shalom, Daniel. Glad to help. I should get hold of Ralph Whitehead for further advice. He may have something on one of his Verlustlisten now that you know precisely what you are seeking. After that my inclination would be to get in touch with someone via the website I named and seek their assistance. Quite apart from anything else, they will want to know of the existence of a living relative and you may wish to consider a visit. Best of luck with it Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 27 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 27 April , 2011 Jack, I just checked the website you referenced (which I had been to before, to research Fulda, but I had not seen that they had a section for Gemünden), and I see that by 1924 the Jewish community consisted of only 65 people! I also see Moritz' father Gustav Strauß given prominent mention as 2nd Chair of the community leadership there in Gemünden. Gustav was a cattle dealer, and fled Gemünden with his son Julius in 1938 aboard the SS Washington subsequent to the Nazi pogrom that destroyed their synagogue the previous month. Tellingly, Moritz was not with them. Selma had come over in 1933, and I can find no immigration records for Moritz whatsoever. Given the above, the circumstantial evidence is telling me that this is probably him, but until I find some document to that effect I can only really speculate. How many Moritz Strauß's could have lived in such a small Jewish community at the same time! Back to the books (and archives, and Ancestry.....) -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 27 April , 2011 Share Posted 27 April , 2011 need to figure out the Hebrew bit at the top of the stone to see what that entails! Daniel, It gives his Hebrew name as Meir bar Gavriel and then the Hebrew date of his death regards Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 27 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 27 April , 2011 need to figure out the Hebrew bit at the top of the stone to see what that entails! Daniel, It gives his Hebrew name as Meir bar Gavriel and then the Hebrew date of his death regards Michael Michael, Thanks!! It looks like his mother (Fanny Strauss) is buried there too: I just wish the photo was closer so I could make out the details...I think I see the name Mayer there, which was Fanny's maiden name. If so, this is indeed Moritz's mother. I should add that I have been to the main website for Gemünden and emailed the contact they provided previously without any response. If at first you don't succeed, try, try again! -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger H Posted 27 April , 2011 Share Posted 27 April , 2011 Daniel This thread is yet another excellent example of the power of this forum. You must be thrilled? Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 27 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 27 April , 2011 Roger, Indeed, I would say thrilled and immensely grateful. This discovery is rather bittersweet as upon initially hearing about Moritz, I held out some hope that some member of that branch of the family might yet live, but if this is my great uncle, the Strauss line has, with Selma's death nine years ago, come to an end. All that remains are their stories, which I hope to pass on and keep alive perhaps a bit longer. Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 27 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 27 April , 2011 I just emailed the contact in Gemunden again...my initial email was from last November. I hope this time someone responds. Update: apparently there is a branch of the VdK there, and I found their email address...I just emailed them so we will see if that bears any fruit. Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger H Posted 27 April , 2011 Share Posted 27 April , 2011 Roger, ...............All that remains are their stories, which I hope to pass on and keep alive perhaps a bit longer. Daniel And that is what it is all about Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 27 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 27 April , 2011 Hi Roger, Indeed. I feel it is the least I can do. I should add I also put a request in with the Bundesarchiv Frieberg/Militararchiv...we'll see if any of these lines of inquiry bring in new information. Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger H Posted 27 April , 2011 Share Posted 27 April , 2011 ...we'll see if any of these lines of inquiry bring in new information. Daniel Daniel I am sure you will keep us informed. This is a good thread. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 3 May , 2011 Author Share Posted 3 May , 2011 Hi all, No update at present; keeping an eye on the inbox and scouring my resources for additional data. Happily, other family research leads are paying off so it's been busy, busy, busy! -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 12 May , 2011 Author Share Posted 12 May , 2011 Tarnation! I received a reply this morning from the Bundesarchiv Frieberg/Militararchiv. I got two strikes with one pitch! Their response to my inquiry: Bundesarchiv, Abteilung Militärarchiv Gz.: MA 5 - 07 - A/Stern (Bitte bei Antwort immer angeben) Bearbeiterin: Frau Scheermann Ihre Nachricht vom: 27.04.2011 Freiburg, 12.05.2011 Sehr geehrter Herr Stern, leider verlief die Recherche nach Moritz Strauss und Julius Strauß im Bestand PERS 9 (Krankenunterlagen der Preußischen Armee, Kaiserlichen Marine und Schutztruppen, der Reichswehr und Wehrmacht) negativ. Auch sonstige Personalunterlagen konnten in den Beständen PERS 7 (Personalunterlagen von Angehörigen der Preußischen Armee) und PERS 8 (Personalunterlagen von Angehörigen der Kaiserlichen Marine, der Schutztruppen und sonstiger Einrichtungen unter dem Befehl des Kaisers) nicht ermittelt werden. Die Personalunterlagen und Karteimittel der Preußischen Armee sind im Jahre 1945 bei einem Luftangriff auf Potsdam im Heeresarchiv nahezu vollständig verbrannt. Daher lassen sich nur sehr selten Unterlagen zu Teilnehmern des Ersten Weltkriegs bzw. Angehörigen der Preußischen Armee aus der Zeit vor dem Ersten Weltkrieg ermitteln. Personalunterlagen von Angehörigen der Marine ab 1871 werden auch von der Deutschen Dienststelle (WASt) verwahrt. Falls die gesuchten Personen der Marine angehört haben, empfehle ich Ihnen daher auch dort anzufragen. Bitte geben Sie dabei an, dass Sie sich bereits an das Bundesarchiv-Militärarchiv gewandt haben. Vorsorglich weise ich daraufhin, dass Sie bei der Deutschen Dienststelle mit einer mehrmonatigen Bearbeitungszeit rechnen müssen. Deutsche Dienststelle (WASt) Eichborndamm 179 13403 Berlin Tel.: 030 41 90 40 Internet: www.dd-wast.de Zu Ihrer Information finden Sie in der Anlage eine Übersicht zur Verwahrung personenbezogener Unterlagen aus dem Ersten Weltkrieg bzw. der Zeit vor dem Ersten Weltkrieg. Für Rückfragen stehe ich Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen Im Auftrag gez. (Scheermann) So, a line of inquiry for Moritz, as well as Moritz' brother Julius has also resulted in a dead end. Very, very frustrating. The other inquiries I have made have not generated any response yet, but I know it can take a while, so I suppose it is the waiting game at this point. -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 24 May , 2011 Author Share Posted 24 May , 2011 To date, no response from the VdK or from the city officials in Gemünden. Very depressing, actually. -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 24 November , 2011 Author Share Posted 24 November , 2011 Looks live Moritz is listed in the Verlustlise, according to the German Jewish Soldier website: Notice of Loss: 670 If they ever digitize and put the relevant time frame online, maybe I can get a copy and it could shed some light on what happened to him. -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph J. Whitehead Posted 25 November , 2011 Share Posted 25 November , 2011 Daniel, Moritz Strauss first appeared on the Verlustlisten on 23 September 1916, page 15030, list No. 641. He is shown in the 2nd Coy: Strauss, Moritz, Gemünden, Simmern - Verwundet. Given there is about a 4-5 week time difference from the date of the casualty to the date it appears in print then it does support that he was wounded some time during the initial deployment of this battalion in late August 1916. On list No. 670, page 15862, 27 October 1916: Strauss, Moritz (2. Komp.) Gemünden, bisher verwundet, +. I would post them but I cannot change the images to a JPEG for some odd reason. I will dig out your e-mail and send copies this weekend. Ralph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 25 November , 2011 Author Share Posted 25 November , 2011 Hi Ralph, This is great information! As always, my sincere thanks! As an aside, why would he be listed in two different lists? Was that common? -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph J. Whitehead Posted 25 November , 2011 Share Posted 25 November , 2011 Hi Daniel, It is not uncommon to be listed on 2 or more lists. It all depends upon the information present at that time. List 1, Missing in action, list 2 captured, killed, etc., list 3 captured and wounded, etc. or possibly list 4 where the name of the man, his birthplace was originally incorrect and it was changed. It is possible for 4-5 listings from the original with corrections and updates. Ralph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 25 June , 2013 Author Share Posted 25 June , 2013 Hi Ralph, all: I am pleased to see that Moritz Strauß' VL entries have been added to the fantastic VL database: http://java.genealogy.net/eingabe-verlustlisten/search/show/4628091 http://java.genealogy.net/eingabe-verlustlisten/search/show/4957385 :poppy: -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 11 April , 2017 Author Share Posted 11 April , 2017 I just stumbled across this very interesting development! I plan on contacting the author today to see if more details are available. http://www.mainpost.de/regional/main-spessart/Erster-Weltkrieg-1914-1918-Gedenktafeln-Heimatpfleger-Judentum-Kriegsopfer-Presseberichte-Tote-Vaterland-Weltkriege;art768,8302015 -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 13 April , 2017 Author Share Posted 13 April , 2017 I just found a photo of the top of Moritz' gravestone that gives a detail I had not seen previously. I wonder how often pickelhaubes appear on gravestones? Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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