Guest GeauxTigers Posted 16 June , 2004 Share Posted 16 June , 2004 I read that "Brodie" helmets were painted gray and later kakhi. An ad for one for sale listed the color as "dark blue". Is this a dark blue/gray? Would the kakhi be what we call in the US "olive drab"? Additionally, a picture I saw showed heavy brush marks and no evidence on sand being added to the paint to make a rough texture. Was the sand an American feature, or did the British use it, too? If anyone has a picture to post, I'd really like to see it! Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brummy Posted 17 June , 2004 Share Posted 17 June , 2004 I can help on the kakhi part a bit. Kakhi was a light earthy brown where as olive drab is I believe green. Brum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger Posted 17 June , 2004 Share Posted 17 June , 2004 One of the Tank Battalions wore blue painted helmets. I need to dig around to find out which one but I'll get back. Roger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger Posted 17 June , 2004 Share Posted 17 June , 2004 Found it! An illustration in the Blandford book Army Uniforms of World War One by Andrew Mollo and illustrated by Pierre Turner shows.... "Private, 4th Battalion Tank Corps, Domart, France, 10th August 1918. This battalion was identified by the blue cloth flashes on the shoulder straps and blue-painted steel helmets" Roger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 17 June , 2004 Share Posted 17 June , 2004 i heard somewhere that helmets were in Apple green... Not kakhi. But i can't recall the source + i don't know about the trustability. US helmets were kakhi. I have a first model brit one, and the colour is indeed lighter than the US one. But i don't know if that is apple green or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger Posted 17 June , 2004 Share Posted 17 June , 2004 In Brassey's World war One British Army Stephen Bull writes about the earliest pattern helmets, "Brodie hmself recommended a softly melded mixture of mottled light green, blue and orange, which gave a vaguely verdigrised bronze effectof varying shades of khaki. More common was a rather shiny blue-grey or green." He goes on to say when the "Mark 1 was introduced in May 1916 it's exterior was painted khaki and roughened with sawdust or sand whilst still wet. Hope this is of help. Roger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GeauxTigers Posted 17 June , 2004 Share Posted 17 June , 2004 I did not think I'd get a response like this! Thanks! Here's a picture of the Irish Guards from the GWA in the US from their website showing their helmet color. I thought it was too light before, now I really think it's too light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 17 June , 2004 Share Posted 17 June , 2004 it really looks to light it is more sand colour... this is the colour of one of the best original painted ones in the museum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 17 June , 2004 Share Posted 17 June , 2004 we use a bit darker colour: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GeauxTigers Posted 17 June , 2004 Share Posted 17 June , 2004 THANK YOU, bkristof! Seeing the originals and newly painted helmets really helps. I'll keep in mind that the color has shifted on the original helmets over the past 80-90 years. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 17 June , 2004 Share Posted 17 June , 2004 GeauxTigers, When Helmets were introduced they were painted smooth and could have a combination of colors. Some early ones having a light camoflage or grey, but most tending towards an Apple Green. Some early MKI have this color. Blue was not a normal color and woiuld assume it have been painted for other reasons (not tank corps) When the MKI was introduced the color was official changed to "Service" or "Service Dress", but is usually called Khaki. Service and Khaki are actually two different colors of issue paint. Service has a very slight muddy greenish tinge to a brownish color and was intended to match the drab color of the Service Dress Uniform. Khaki was more brownish sandy in color with no green tinge. I hate trying to describe colors. Also, when the MKI was introduced all factory finished helmets were sanded and the two coats of paint baked on. The first coat was the most perminent and this contained the sand and appears darker and has a more semi gloss finish because it has a higher binder to pigment ratio than the second coat for durability. The second coat was less perminent because it had a higher pigment to binder ratio trying to give a flatter shade. This second coat is not very durable and can be rubbed off by hand leaving the darker first coat. Helmets were also constantly salvaged and you can find many that were depot repainted by brush. The attached photo shows three different helmets. The top two are MKI helmets and near unissued and have not seen much handling ( I have 5 helmets in this category and all color are in this range or close, one of my helmets still has the packing paper smashed on the dome). Oil from bare hjands will darken the paint considerably. The top one is a MkI built before April 1917, the second is the interior of an unissued MKI built after April 1917. The top picture one shows the difference in colors between the first or base coat at the top of the helmet and the remaining second coat. The third Helmet is interesting: it is a first pattern rimless helmet made of Magnetic metal (which places manufacture in the fall of 1915.) It has had a rough rim added at depot. What it shows is the original Apple Green color as it was never repainted. It also shows the first type liner. I also have two complete early helmets with original liners and two piece chinstraps that show Grey paint under neath a Service over paint. I would say from first looks the IG helmet is a bit too light in color to fall into the normal range of helmet shades for a MKI helmet. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger Posted 17 June , 2004 Share Posted 17 June , 2004 Kristof and Joe thanks for adding the pics and info. They'll come in useful for me too. Cheers, Roger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 17 June , 2004 Share Posted 17 June , 2004 nice to see joe confirm my info ! so apple green was indeed used. and our rezpro colour is ok... that is nice to know, thx joe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GeauxTigers Posted 17 June , 2004 Share Posted 17 June , 2004 Great pics and thanks, Joe! You must have a great collection! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 17 June , 2004 Share Posted 17 June , 2004 the liner of the one on the bottom (apple green one) is also different, it looks like a French liner... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 17 June , 2004 Share Posted 17 June , 2004 The liner is the first pattern British liner that came out in 1915 and was replaced by the familar adjustable net liner with the MKI helmet. All rimless pattern helmets originally had this type liner when manufactured and these liners are extemely rare. Almost all rimless helmets encountered are depot relined using the liner used in the MKI Helmet. So if you have a rimless helmet with the middle type liner it was relined after the summer of 1916. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GeauxTigers Posted 17 June , 2004 Share Posted 17 June , 2004 The first pattern liner looks like oil cloth cut into strips with padding under it. I'd guess that the ends tie together. Is that right? How was the factory finish applied? By spraying it on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lassuy Posted 17 June , 2004 Share Posted 17 June , 2004 For an interesting variation, I have a Brodie helmet that is khaki on the inside, but has a brushed-on dark green exterior. The US purchased many helmets (one source says close to 2 million!) from the British, consequently most US troops in France wore Brodie helmets as opposed to the US M1917 --which was a direct copy of the Brodie. My helmet was probably repainted forest green when it was issued to the Marine Corps--their forest green uniforms set them apart from the US Army doughboys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GeauxTigers Posted 17 June , 2004 Share Posted 17 June , 2004 If it was painted forest green, it was done post war. Marine uniforms stood out because of the different color and were replaced with Army uniforms which made supply easier and didn't give away that Marines were in the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.S.Regt. Posted 17 June , 2004 Share Posted 17 June , 2004 Hi Most of the helmets I have are apple green my R.C.R. div. marked one is like this but is smooth finished. My 25th battalion Div. marked helmet is a dark green with a rough sand finish. My 85th battalion div. marked helmet is a odd, almost mustard color with a light sand finish. Best regards N.S.Regt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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