Bombers - was there criteria to become one?

[John_Hartley]

I've been wondering what made for a good bomber.

An ability to throw the grenade accurately over a goodly distance is certainly the outcome.

Might that mean you would look for taller men who might have longer "reach". Or men who were particularly strong in the arm. Good cricketers, perhaps?

Any thoughts?

[Longboat]

John,

My grandfather was a bomber, stood about 6ft 1' and weighed in about 13 stone. He had no interest in cricket though as far as I know. I'll be interested to see what other replies you get to this thread.

Stuart.

[squirrel]

Only comment I have been able to find is from "A Handbook on Rifle and Hand Grenades" by Major Graham M Ainslie 1917(N & MP reprint available). This describes the grenades used during the war up to that time and contains the following comments:

"In throwing all hand grenades an overarm action will be used, like a bowler when playing cricket".

"Hand grenades are held firmly in the hand behind the thrower, the arm is brought quickly upward with a sweeping movement (the arm straight all the time), the grenade will be let go when the hand is above the thrower's head, and should describe a semi circle in its flight.

Hand grenades can be thrown from 30 to 50 yards.

Certainly sounds like cricketers would have had no problem with the technique described.

This poet seems to have thought so:

The Cricketers of Flanders.

The first to climb the parapet

With 'cricket–ball' in either hand;

The first to vanish in the smoke

Of God-forsaken No-Man's land.

First at the wire and soonest through,

First at those re-mouthed hounds of hell

The Maxims, and the first to fall -

They do their bit, and do it well.

Full sixty yards I've seen them throw

With all that nicety of aim

They learned on British cricket-fields.

Ah! Bombing is a Briton's game!

Shell-hole, trench to trench,

'Lobbing them over'. With an eye

As true as though it were a game,

And friends were having tea close by.

Pull down some art-offending thing

Of carven stone, and in its stead

Let splendid bronze commemorate

These men, the living and the dead.

No figure in heroic size

Towering skyward like a god;

But just a lad who might have stepped

From any British bombing squad.

His shrapnel helmet set a-tilt,

His bombing waistcoat sagging low,

His rifle slung across his back:

Poised in the very act to throw.

And let some raven legend tell

Of those weird battles in the West

Wherein he put old skill to use

And played old games with sterner zest.

Thus should he stand, reminding those

In less believing days, perchance,

How Britain's fighting cricketers

Helped bomb the Germans out of France.

And other eyes than ours would see;

And other hearts than ours would thrill,

And others say, as we have said:

'A sportsman and a soldier still!'

James Norman Hall.

[MartinThwaite]

Hi John,

My Grandad, LCpl Tom Tarmey ,1 Coldstream, was a Bomber wounded in action at Ginchy on 15 Sep 16. He was about 5' 10'' , slim build and very strong in the arms. As a young lad in Barrowford, Lancashire he worked in one of the local mills and I remember him telling me he used to help the men who loaded the wagons to build up his strength!! It certainly worked - he wasnt a cricketer by the way but a boxer. He served as a Police Officer in Liverpool for 25 years after the Great War where his strength was tested on more than one occassion!

Regards,

Martin

[truthergw]

Bombers worked in a party and could swap jobs to some extent. All would be picked for physical strength. A bag or waistcoat full of bombs was heavy and one had to be agile while carrying/wearing one. The bayonet men would also benefit from being strong. I think. steadiness of nerve and a bit of initiative would be required. Finally and perhaps most importantly, reliable. A small squad of men who relied implicitly on each other. All of them would rely upon each other to do what was needed.

[John_Hartley]

He served as a Police Officer in Liverpool

Perhaps not too co-incidental, but my question was prompted over a police officer who, presumably in those days, were all tall men.

[Steven Broomfield]

And also considerably older than ones-self.

Is it terribly pedantic to point out the thread should be "...WERE there criteria" (or "Was there a criterion...")?

Incidentally, in bean's history of the AIF, Vol III, there is a tremendous description of a bombing fight on the Somme that an Aussie unit "bought nto", replacing a battalion of the Welsh regiment. Quite breath-taking descriptive work.

[Liz in Eastbourne]

In Gerald V. Dennis's book A Kitchener Man's Bit (ed Michael Hickes, pub. 1994 MERH books) about the 21st Battalion King's Royal Rifle Corps (Yeoman Rifles), formed at Helmsley in Yorkshire, there is this passage:

I asked Bram how he came to be one of the Bombing Section and his explanation as to how the section had been formed was quite amusing. On parade one morning in the good old Helmsley days a Sergeant had asked all cricketers, especially bowlers, to step forward. A number of men, thinking there was going to be a cricket match, stepped forward from the ranks and received the news "You are now Bombers."

This was corroborated by the website for Kirkby Wharfe/ Ulleskelfe WW1 Memorial, where Rifleman Norman Ward, C/12713, of Ulleskelf, is said to have been a member of the Ulleskelfe Cricket Club when he was a clerk at the Prudential and a bomb thrower when he was in the Yeoman Rifles.

Liz

Steven, I too had a pedantic reaction to the singular verb...but the policemen look absurdly young to me, too.

[Jeff Pickerd]

John,

With the Australian forces at Anzac organized bombing parties were formed from the 1st July 1915, as per the Divisional order following.

This will not answer your question directly, for I can find no effective criteria or instructions as to the selection of men to make up these bombing parties, but records do give reference to bombing instruction and practice being undertaken at Anzac Cove after that date.

It is apparent from the Divisional order, that the need for organized and trained bombing parties were to be a necessity for the fore-coming August campaign.

Thursday 1-6-15 -

APPENDIX Pages No. 18 & 19. - New Zealand & Australian Division.

Organization of Grenade Parties and Supply of Grenades with a view to offensive operations.

1. In the event of the Division being required to attack an enemy holding a position prepared with successive lines of trenches, connected by connecting trenches, it is probable that grenades will prove necessary to clear him out from his trenches.

It must, however, be clearly understood that the grenade is only to be used to assist the bayonet, never to replace it. Troops assaulting are never to wait for grenade throwers, though these, when available, can render valuable assistance, if well trained and properly organized, and can render success attainable with fewer casualties.

2. Regimental and Battalion Organization.

In order to take full advantage of the grenade as a weapon of offence, it is essential that regular organization of grenadiers and of grenade supply be adopted. The General Officer Commanding therefore directs that the following organization be adopted throughout the N.Z.& Australian Division –

.In each Squadron of Mounted Rifles.

1 Grenade Sergeant or Corporal.

4 Bomb Parties each consisting of: - 1 thrower, 1 assistant thrower and 2 carriers.

In each Company of Infantry.

1 Grenade Sergeant,

1 Corporal,

6 Bomb Parties, each containing: - 1 thrower, 1 assistant thrower, and 2 carriers.

In each Regiment and Battalion an Officer will be selected as Grenade Officer. Normally his duties in this connection will consist in training the various Grenade Parties and supernumeraries to replace casualties. In special cases, however, he may be detailed to take charge of Grenade Parties for special enterprises.

3. Organization of Grenade Parties.

A Grenade Party will normally consist of: - 1 thrower carrying 10 jam tin grenades or 20 small grenades, (bayonet but no rifle),

1 assistant thrower carrying 10 jam tin grenades or 20 small grenades, (bayonet but no rifle).

2 carriers, each carrying 20 jam tin grenades or 40 small grenades, and slung rifles, 2 escort with rifles and fixed bayonets.

The throwers will carry their grenades in special belts or haversacks – the carriers in special haversacks or baskets.

4. Supply of Grenades.

It is hoped to arrange that grenades will normally be carried by mule carts, one of which will be allocated for this purpose to each Battalion of Infantry and half a cart to each Regiment of Mounted troops.

The load for a grenade cart is: - 6 boxes jam tin grenades = 300 large or 480 small.

1 box Lotbinier bombs = 8 bombs.

Special belts and haversacks for throwers and carriers. When grenades are likely to be required by any unit, the Grenade parties proceed to the cart which normally will be with the Regimental S.A.A. Reserves, draw the special equipment and grenades, and rejoin their units. The throwers (and assistant throwers) will leave their rifles in the grenade carts.

In the event of it being impossible to bring the grenade cart sufficiently close to the unit requiring grenades, S.A.A. pack mules of the unit will be made use of: the S.A.A. loaded on these mules being deposited at some convenient spot.

5. Tactical Employment of Grenade Parties.

Grenade parties acting offensively will be employed under the following conditions: - (a) When the enemy’s trenches are within throwing distance of our trenches. In this case the assault will be prepared by showers of grenades thrown into the enemy’s trenches immediately prior to the assault, special grenade parties being formed up opposite the enemy’s communication trenches as far as these have been located. In the actual assault on the trench, grenade throwers will accompany the assaulting party.

After the enemy trench has been occupied the grenade parties bombard the enemy’s support trenches while special parties previously referred to work up the enemy communication trenches, and to the flanks of the unit (if any), and prevent the enemy collecting for counterattacks.

( When the Enemy’s Trenches are assaulted from beyond throwing distance. In this case bomb parties come up with the last troops to be thrown in prior to the assault, and join the assault: when the trench is taken they act as in (a). Should any obstacle be met which chokes the assault within throwing distance of the enemy, they cover the destruction of passage of the obstacle by bombarding the enemy.

Time fuse bombs are not to be used during an assault owing to the danger of causing casualties among our own men; except in the case of an obstacle being met as mentioned above.

Should detonating bombs, however, be available, they should be thrown as soon as the assaulting line gets within throwing distance of the enemy, and up to the last possible moment.

Signed - W. G. Braithwaite, Lieut-Colonel, General Staff, N.Z. & A. Division.

There is also footage of bomb throwing practice being conducted at Broadmeadows Camp, Victoria, Australia, (AWM Canberra,archival footage) mid to late 1915. All bombs being used in the practice are the jam-tin bomb, so it stands to reason that it predates the introduction of the Mills bomb to Australia for instructional purposes.

Jeff

[Ron Clifton]

Hello all

Height was certainly one of the criteria for the selection of grenadiers in the eighteenth century, doubtless for the same reasons as in the Great War.

But I don't thin that bombers in 14-18 were provided with special rimless helmets so that their throwing arm did not get caught on the brim!

Ron

[squirrel]

In the book Harry's War by Harry Stinton, edited by Virginia Mayo published by Brassey's 2002 ISBN 1 85753 317 8, Harry, who served with the 1/7th battalion the London Regiment,he says that: ....one morning, volunteers were asked to join the Bombing Platoon....

[Tony Lund]

I have a couple of views here from a 1916 soldier and a 1918 Holmfirth Military Tribunal member:

Rifleman John Edward Charlesworth was in training on the North East Coast, near Whitley Bay. From there he wrote to his brother, Mr. George Henry Charlesworth on July 7th 1916, saying:

“It does not make any difference whether you are a 1st class shot or a 3rd class shot, you have to go just the same, and the washouts stand a good chance of being made bombers.”

At the Holmfirth Military Tribunal held on April 17th 1918: A father said that two of his four sons had enlisted at the start of the war, then a third had been called up. The fourth son had been medically examined twelve months ago and was then classed as B2, now he had been re-examined and passed A1.

“I don’t see how they could pass him in Class A when he can only see with one eye,” complained the father.”

Member of the Tribunal then said that those who proved unsuitable as marksmen because of defective eyesight were trained as bombers.

Tony.

[Muerrisch]

And also considerably older than ones-self.

Is it terribly pedantic to point out the thread should be "...WERE there criteria" (or "Was there a criterion...")?

Incidentally, in bean's history of the AIF, Vol III, there is a tremendous description of a bombing fight on the Somme that an Aussie unit "bought nto", replacing a battalion of the Welsh regiment. Quite breath-taking descriptive work.

No, it is not pedantic, bravo!

[John_Hartley]

Pedants, eh. Doncha just luurrve 'em?

Not, of course, that I'm suggesting Broomers or the Grumpmeister are in that category. Perish the thought.

[centurion]

Hello all

Height was certainly one of the criteria for the selection of grenadiers in the eighteenth century, .

The grenades of that day were bigger and heavier (but less powerful). You had to be a big man, a bit like a shot putter.

[centurion]

Just as today most young men will have played football and gained some basic ball handling skills in WW1 most men of that age would have played cricket in the summers and have had some idea how to bowl - even if they didn't play in a regular team and were not practiced bowlers (and when throwing a grenade a full toss is better than a leg break!)

[truthergw]

Just as today most young men will have played football and gained some basic ball handling skills in WW1 most men of that age would have played cricket in the summers and have had some idea how to bowl - even if they didn't play in a regular team and were not practiced bowlers (and when throwing a grenade a full toss is better than a leg break!)

Hmmm. Most men in the country or small villages perhaps but the idea that the majority of the workers from Liverpool, Sheffield, Hackney or Glasgow would have whiled away their leisure hours playing cricket, is a little on the fanciful side.

[dycer]

John,

Part of the problem may be that some of us may be trying to view your question through contemporary? eyes.

For example, during my time in the T.A.,in an Infantry Battalion,it was deemed my best role would be as a signaller(you,however,know my stature,have some knowledge of the quality of my eyesight i.e. I wear spectacles and I admit to learning the rudiments of sports at School including Cricket).

Although my main "trade",in the T.A. was a signaller I was expected to be experienced and conversant with all arms e.g. Rifle,GPMP,SMG,etc and undertook the relevant exercises concerning firing,stripping,cleaning,etc.

I also spent a Weekend,in Leek,cleaning factory packed i.e.covered in protective oil/wax Grenades,fuzing them and throwing them.Luckily I threw no duds that weekend because I did not fancy having to go out and retrieve them having been taught their potency.

As a signaller I had access to the permanent Company Office,including personnel files,on occasion,so being a nosey sort of bloke I once checked my own file.

Buried among the few papers was one recording that I had successfully completed a Grenade Course.

Whether I would have made a successful Bomber is open to debate but as an Infantryman I was taught all arms so could have been called upon to be one if circumstances dictated.

I accept there is a flaw in my suggestion, in as much as I was expected,as the Company Signaller to keep communications open including simple things like identifying dead batteries and changing them, for my Mates who had been lumbered with their Platoon Radio which they knew nothing about.

Obviously what I have written relates to the 1970's.

So my main question,to the Forum,is?Were Infantryman in WW1,during their basic training taught all skill at arms including grenade handling but some weeded out as specialists e.g.Signals or the Cookhouse.

The real Bombers only being identified ,through experience or observation, on active service.

George

[centurion]

Hmmm. Most men in the country or small villages perhaps but the idea that the majority of the workers from Liverpool, Sheffield, Hackney or Glasgow would have whiled away their leisure hours playing cricket, is a little on the fanciful side.

On the contrary factory workers played cricket - so much so that for a while it flourished in some American industrial towns having been carried there by British factory workers lured across the Atlantic in the late 1800s and early 1900s. In any case as kids they would all have played cricket in the summer months even if the stumps were chalked on the school playground wall. Unlike today football was simply not played in the summer (just as was the case just post WW2 as I can vouch). I suspect however you might be right about the Glasgow guys.

BTW the 18th century grenade thrower often adopted an action more like a shot putter with the arm bent and pulled back so he was holding the grenade next to his ear (contemporary drawings show this). This may have been to ensure the right trajectory so that the grenade cleared the palisades went over the edge of the glacis and dropped onto the covered way rather than falling into the ditch where it would have been ineffective.