PhilB Posted 16 August , 2010 Share Posted 16 August , 2010 This is currently up on the auction site & does look a bit unusual (Not my scene and I have no connection with the sale). Anyone care to comment? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RARE-UNUSUAL-EPNS-PRIVATE-COMMISSION-MARY-TIN-1914-/290463171555?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eparges Posted 16 August , 2010 Share Posted 16 August , 2010 Hi, I think the answer is in this sale... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SOLDIERS-TOBACCO-TIN-CHRISTMAS-1914-New-Reproduction-/190429048874?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 16 August , 2010 Share Posted 16 August , 2010 Beat me to it. At least one seller knew what he was selling. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 16 August , 2010 Share Posted 16 August , 2010 Beat me to it. At least one seller knew what he was selling. John There have been several threads on this before I am pretty sure a search for Christmas tin would turn them up IIRC the type that is being sold here was originally produced post war as a "Commemorative" box.... The modern reproductions come in both brass and "silver" finish. I have one of each (given to me!) if anyone would like detailed pics for reference. THIS SITE (although slow and with lots of broken links these days) is a good reference for variations Here is the relevant bit.... "A additional pattern has also been identified; this is a commemorative 'copy' of the original issue which was made available after the war, presumably to be purchased by those who did not qualify for the gift. The tin is manufactured from heavier gauge brass and the lid is not hinged, although silver plated examples have been noted. The examples I have seen have the phrase 'Imperium Britannicum' mis-spelt as 'Britannigum'. The overall lid design is not embossed and is a much-simplified version of the original, and I have nominated this as 'Type A' to avoid confusion with the official issue. Following to Royal objections to the unauthorised use of the wording and images on the Type A copy, a further pattern was issued (Type B - my designation), lacking the words 'Imperium Britannicum' and with the year '1914' appearing in the centre instead of the Princess's head. The crest of the Royal Sheffield company is stamped on the base of this box." I have an example of this latter type too - somewhere. Chris EDIT Sorry about the poor quality shots but Pic 1 = The "Commemorative Tin" referred to above as "Type B" (This has a Royal Sheffield mark on the bottom) and a standard tin Pic 2 = Two "reproductions" /"replicas"/"fakes" - one "with patina" (sic) - neither have hinged lids both have the mis-spelling of Britannigum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 17 August , 2010 Author Share Posted 17 August , 2010 Thanks, gents - now we know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 17 August , 2010 Share Posted 17 August , 2010 Hold on, what is the box supposed to be a reproduction of? As it looks nothing like The Princess Mary 1914 Christmas Gift tin it must be a copy of the Sheffield commemorative tin which itself was a completely unofficial item. The one I have is well made of brass but came from a dealer at Hemsworth years ago who had quite a few, they all smelt of 'new' metal. I keep my loose change in it. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
27thBN Posted 17 August , 2010 Share Posted 17 August , 2010 Snap i was thinking the same thing :blink: MC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 17 August , 2010 Share Posted 17 August , 2010 Snap i was thinking the same thing :blink: MC Yes...I think that is correct a copy of the "commemorative" box, (Type A) which carried the head and the wording - replaced after "official objections" The top appears to be etched and is in far less relief than the real boxes. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 18 August , 2010 Share Posted 18 August , 2010 The item in post 1 is different to that in post 2 and appears to be earlier. So The item in post 2 is a reproduction of the item in post 1 which is itself an unofficial copy. Personally if I was a collector of boxes I would have bought the box in post 1 because you don't see many contemporary marked copies, the fact that it is marked epns makes it different to the many modern made brass boxes. I think people are making assumptions that all these boxes are brand new because thats what the self styled 'experts' are telling them. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris P Posted 18 August , 2010 Share Posted 18 August , 2010 The item in post 1 is different to that in post 2 and appears to be earlier. So The item in post 2 is a reproduction of the item in post 1 which is itself an unofficial copy. Personally if I was a collector of boxes I would have bought the box in post 1 because you don't see many contemporary marked copies, the fact that it is marked epns makes it different to the many modern made brass boxes. I think people are making assumptions that all these boxes are brand new because thats what the self styled 'experts' are telling them. Mick Quite. The seller who describes his box as a reproduction is off the mark - It's a copy of a Mary tin that could well have been made during WW1. None of these are modern repros. These copies were initially produced almost concurrent with the originals. Many of the new armies who missed out on the issue were happy to purchase an unofficial copy. As mentioned, the first design was a close copy, but was soon changed following complaints from Buckingham Palace on the use of the Princess' image & royal cyphers. Certainly, all these 1st issues date from the great war. I would have thought that by 1918 the novelty would have worn off, & it's my opinion that none of these in any form were produced much past the end of hostilities. Chris P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 18 August , 2010 Share Posted 18 August , 2010 ....I think people are making assumptions that all these boxes are brand new because thats what the self styled 'experts' are telling them. ....And possibly because none had been seen;documented,nor recorded before the 1970s.....????? IIRC there was a "silver" version hallmarked in the 1970s that was discussed here some years ago.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 18 August , 2010 Share Posted 18 August , 2010 Who was looking? What about the ones in post 1, 4 and 14? I would be interested to see the 1970 hallmarked one especially if it was Sheffield. 'The overall lid design is not embossed and is a much-simplified version of the original, and I have nominated this as 'Type A' to avoid confusion with the official issue. Following to Royal objections to the unauthorised use of the wording and images on the Type A copy, a further pattern was issued (Type B - my designation), lacking the words 'Imperium Britannicum' and with the year '1914' appearing in the centre instead of the Princess's head. The crest of the Royal Sheffield company is stamped on the base of this box'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry B Posted 19 April , 2014 Share Posted 19 April , 2014 I picked up today an example of the Type B as classified above, though it is just maked EPNS (Electro plated nickel silver) on the base and has some age to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry B Posted 19 April , 2014 Share Posted 19 April , 2014 A picture of the lid. It matches the description above, not hinged but a push on lid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 29 November , 2017 Share Posted 29 November , 2017 On 16/08/2010 at 22:57, 4thGordons said: There have been several threads on this before I am pretty sure a search for Christmas tin would turn them up IIRC the type that is being sold here was originally produced post war as a "Commemorative" box.... The modern reproductions come in both brass and "silver" finish. I have one of each (given to me!) if anyone would like detailed pics for reference. THIS SITE (although slow and with lots of broken links these days) is a good reference for variations Here is the relevant bit.... "A additional pattern has also been identified; this is a commemorative 'copy' of the original issue which was made available after the war, presumably to be purchased by those who did not qualify for the gift. The tin is manufactured from heavier gauge brass and the lid is not hinged, although silver plated examples have been noted. The examples I have seen have the phrase 'Imperium Britannicum' mis-spelt as 'Britannigum'. The overall lid design is not embossed and is a much-simplified version of the original, and I have nominated this as 'Type A' to avoid confusion with the official issue. Following to Royal objections to the unauthorised use of the wording and images on the Type A copy, a further pattern was issued (Type B - my designation), lacking the words 'Imperium Britannicum' and with the year '1914' appearing in the centre instead of the Princess's head. The crest of the Royal Sheffield company is stamped on the base of this box." I have an example of this latter type too - somewhere. Chris EDIT Sorry about the poor quality shots but Pic 1 = The "Commemorative Tin" referred to above as "Type B" (This has a Royal Sheffield mark on the bottom) and a standard tin Pic 2 = Two "reproductions" /"replicas"/"fakes" - one "with patina" (sic) - neither have hinged lids both have the mis-spelling of Britannigum Hi All I have one with the Princess's head. with M M each side it has cigs in and a packet of Tabaco with a Christmas card there is one cigarette in but a full Tabaco dated 1914 with a pencil in I know it is real as I smoked one fag it was well lets say pig stuff I have some photos with it and I am getting them printed if any one is interested I will post photos. its not bad and important to keep together thanks for having me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 29 November , 2017 Share Posted 29 November , 2017 1 minute ago, moatschool said: Hi All I have one with the Princess's head. with M M each side it has cigs in and a packet of Tabaco with a Christmas card there is one cigarette in but a full Tabaco dated 1914 with a pencil in I know it is real as I smoked one fag it was well lets say pig stuff I have some photos with it and I am getting them printed if any one is interested I will post photos. its not bad and important to keep together thanks for having me sorry I forgot to send this link it is full of all the info you need to know whats what http://www.kinnethmont.co.uk/1914-1918_files/xmas-box-1914.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medaler Posted 29 November , 2017 Share Posted 29 November , 2017 You might want a glance at this thread............... http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/topic/250625-princess-mary-christmas-gift/ Regards, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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