13 Batallion AIF-Reuben Leander Gilpin

[rendellers]

Please could someone check my thinking about this soldier on my local memorial.This is the first time I've researched a man in the AIF.Reuben Gilpin’s service records are here .Having emigrated from Devon age 18 he joined up in 1915 in the 13^th Battalion 8^th reinforcement.. He appears to have had a discipline problem, to have been wounded and absconded. He seems to have been found hiding out in his original home town of Newton Abbot. Having had his prison sentence eventually remitted he appears to have rejoined his original unit on 30 September 1917 and been killed a fortnight later. I hope I have the correct war diary here Am I correct in thinking he is probably the one ‘out killed’ on 15^th October? ( p27 of 28) when they appear to be in reserve lines at Westhoek Ridge( p 13 of 18).

Are there any books/references that would give me more information about his batallion?

Many thanks

Lindsey

[sotonmate]

Lindsey

There is a book called "The History of the Thirteenth Battalion AIF" by T A WHITE Published in 1924 in Sydney by the 13th Battalion AIF Committee. Whether you can still get a copy,or whether the AWM has a copy,I can't say.

I agree that you have the correct War Diary,and your finding of the dates that the casualty could have been killed. Even in reserve at that time (the Battle of Passchendaele) attracted artillery gunfire onto reserve trenches in order to interrupt the flow of troops either way. The Germans probably had perfect co-ordinates on all trench systems,some of them being previously "owned" by them.

Sotonmate

[Waddell]

There is a book called "The History of the Thirteenth Battalion AIF" by T A WHITE Published in 1924 in Sydney by the 13th Battalion AIF Committee. Whether you can still get a copy,or whether the AWM has a copy,I can't say.

Lindsey,

T.A White's "The Fighting Thirteenth" is one of the Battalion Histories that has recently been reprinted by the IWM by Naval & Military Press. It is a softcover and I picked up a copy for around $40 Australian a few weeks ago.

It has the following concerning your man's date of death-

"October 13th was a cold and horribly wet day, the recoonoitring officers having an uncomfortable time. On the 14th the Battalion moved up into reserve on Westhoek Ridge near Kit and Kat, where on the 15th, from 9am to 3pm we were bombarded with heavy gas shells, both of mustard and phosgene varieties, necessitating the constant wearing of the uncomfortable respirators. It was the Battalion's first experience of a reallly tremendous gas bombardment, and our losses would have been much heavier but for the magnificent conduct of Lt H.S Baker, who, wearing his respirator, moved about among the men, rendering first aid and carrying back bad cases back to the R.A.P over slippery ground and through shelling."

Hope that helps.

Scott

[Waddell]

Lindsey,

I assume you found his Roll of Honour circular giving details of his cousins in Victoria. See here-

http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/AWM131/019/019812.pdf

Also Bean's Official History is on-line and worth reading-

http://www.awm.gov.au/histories/first_world_war/

Volume IV will be of interest.

Regards,

Scott

Edit- minor 'discipline problems' seem common with AIF soldiers I have researched. AWL is not uncommom, however most I have seen are for a day or two, unlike your man who was missing for 5 months. No wonder they came down hard on him. Sounds like there was to more to the story than is clear from the records.

[rendellers]

Sotonmate

Thank you for checking my thinking and book recommendation

Scott

Thanks for the Roll of Honour link which I didn't have. I have had a quick look at Bean's Volume 4 and the Passchendale chapter but will need to read it more closely with the list of the brigades/battalions/divisions I have just made myself to get things clearer in my mind. Two years ago I went on an afternoon's guided tour of the area and still find it hard to imagine the mud conditions in the photos at the end of the chapter with what it looks like today. Interesting that he is on the Menin Gate presumably his body got lost in the mud,

I agree that there is more than meets the eye to this man's story. I'm trying to research this memorial logically in date order and work methodically through records but I jumped out of sequence with Ruben because he is the only AIF man. I suspect when I get to the local newspapers further down the line I'll find out more. If so I'll let you know.

Regards

Lindsey

[David B]

Good to know some of those original histories of various AIF units are being reprinted as they cost an arm and a leg these days. Was after one on the 3rd Pioneers and was quoted at least 1000 dollars (abt 600 GBP)

if available. Fortunately one of my rels has a pristine copy and I was able to get a thorough read. Beans vol 4, as with all other volumes is really a 'dry read'but it's information is factual and well worth having a look,

it is also on line from the AWM. It, as uaual, only mentions individual officer deaths.

David

[Waddell]

Lindsey,

I had a quick look for other info on this man, as I have a bit of an interest in that Battalion. This was Harry Murray's Battalion.

Reuben Gilpin suffered the two wounds at Pozieres and Mocquet Farm where the 13th had a difficult time. I wonder if that affected him.

Interestingly the record of his court-martial is available at the Australian National Archives, although not on-line. See here-

http://naa12.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/DetailsReports/ItemDetail.aspx?Barcode=7279152

It may answer a few questions.

I also noted this notice in a Sydney paper-

http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/15875411?searchTerm=reuben+leander+gilpin

I believe it refers to the gratuity amount of his pay that was held as savings. It appears no one claimed it.

Was this man a brother-

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=646963

There seem to be a few Gilpins who were killed serving in the Devons.

David,

Those reprints are a good thing and certainly a great deal cheaper than the originals. Still waiting for the 3rd Battalion AIF reprint.

Scott

[rendellers]

Hi Scott

Thanks for the links-I've ordered the court martial papers so they will be online eventually.

Bertie or Bert as I think he wanted to be known in the army is indeed Reuben's brother. The 1901 census shows him age 18 in the barracks in nearby Exeter.

Both brothers are on the local war memorial. In 1871 their father is in The Kings Own Royal Regiment 1st Battalion and Depot 38 Regiment. So a miltary family.

I downloaded his actual service papers and they show a comment about the court martial the charge of''conduct to the prejudice of good order and military discipline in that he was in possession of a pass knowing it not to be genuine'. Hopefully it will all become clear eventually

Regards

Lindsey

[rendellers]

Scott

The papers are now available here. They do make interesting reading in that he learnt his father was ill so he absconded. Father died two days later and he needed to support mother. However the pass he was using seems very suspect. Given the circumstances and that he was in UK recovering from two bouts of wounding would he not have been given leave if he had asked for it? The MP acted on information recieved- wonder who that was?

Regards

lindseyL

[Waddell]

They do make interesting reading in that he learnt his father was ill so he absconded. Father died two days later and he needed to support mother. However the pass he was using seems very suspect. Given the circumstances and that he was in UK recovering from two bouts of wounding would he not have been given leave if he had asked for it? The MP acted on information recieved- wonder who that was?

Lindsey,

They do make interesting reading and I agree that you have to wonder if he would have been given leave considering the circumstances had he applied. The sad part of the story being if he had served the full sentence he may well have survived and been able to care for the mother. The older brothers death in November 1917 only adds to the tale and it would be interesting to see when the mother died.

Who gave the information? I guess you will never know, but I can't imagine his presence in the village would not have gone unnoticed over that period of time. Could have been a neighbour, a villager with a son serving or recently killed, white feather brigade. I notice that their was a reward system in place (p.29-30) and that the Acting Inspector of Police claimed the award for costs incurred whilst accommodating the prisoner. So I think it safe to assume the tip off was from someone known to the family.

It's a pretty sad tale overall.

The story should write up well. I think you've got a good result with Reuben Gilpin.

Regards,

Scott

[Guest juliaric57]

Reuben Leander Gilpin was my great uncle,his brother Bertie rendell gilpin was my great grandfather,I would be grateful if you have any more information on either of them.thank you

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

Its was not uncommen for British men to enlist in the AIF for a free trip home. (Simpson of Gallipoli fame comes to mind).

I have a number who disappeared after arriving in the UK or after heavy fighting as your bloke.

Since there was no death penaty in the AIF that made AWOL or desertion more commen.

I have some that deserted and were found after some years and sent back to the front, after being charged with the lesser crime of AWOL.

Like

CHERRY Alfred John 14 Sig 03 LHR RHQ to B Sqn 5-15 (G) att WFF to Gnr 2 Sect/4 DAC 3-16 to Bdr 4-16 F&B to AIF depots Bulford UK 7-17 FGCM 30-11-18 deserted 5-3-18 handed in 1-11-18 sentenced 9 months detention to Lewes Detn Bks 11-18 (RAN 15-3-13 deserted 7-4-13)

COLLARD Stephen 239 Pte 6 LHR 1R Tos A Sqn 2-15 (G) disch 10-6-16 MU enteric relist 11R/29Bn (4270) Tos 3-17 reported MIA 11/12-5-17 during heavy shelling at Vaux FGCM 2-1-18 deserted sentenced 5 years PS to No 5 Military Prison at Les Attagues released to 32Bn 1-19 F&B Ex B Troop BSqn/6 LHR DNE AKA Stephen George Collard

LLOYD Robert 876 Pte 7 LHR 4R Tos 5-15 (G) disch 20-9-15 VD relist DCo/13Bn DNE disch 12-1-16 MU relist 6R/36Bn (2832) to 9 Trg Bn UK (33Bn) 3-17 deserted 4-5-17 reported relist in Merchant Navy "Dover Castle" Hosp Ship sunk by German U 67 off Bona Algeria 26-5-17 relist in USA after ammo work in USA emb with GSR (52479) to 1 Trg Bn UK (1Bn) 7-18 to 3Bn 10-18 F&B (British East Lancashire TF 4 years)

BROWN Robert 1386 Pte 05 LHR 11R NTOS FGCM 23-1-16 AWoL sentenced 18 months HL to 25Bn 2-17 FGCM deserted sentence PS life reduced 10 years PS to 2 years HL to 5 Military Prison F&B FGCM 8-12-19 AWoL sentenced 9 months HL to Norwich Prison disch 13-3-20 SNLR

DAY Charles 1705 Pte 11 LHR 8R to 4 Trg Bn UK 9-16 to CCo/15Bn 10-16 to L/Cpl 5-17 WIA 1-7-17 L/Leg bomb reported 1 missing & 6 wounded during German raid on Lt Drane's post on the Warneton line near La Trouve Farm revert Pte 9-17 FGCM 19-4-18 deserted sentenced 5 years PS to No 2 Military prison Rouen 5-18 comutted to 2 years HL and sentenced suspended 9-18 F&B

these are a small number of many.

Cheers

S.B

[Waddell]

Reuben Leander Gilpin was my great uncle,his brother Bertie rendell gilpin was my great grandfather,I would be grateful if you have any more information on either of them.thank you

Hi Julia,

The original poster (Rendellers) has not posted for some time. I have sent them a PM alerting them to your enquiry.

Scott