War Diary 1/1 North Somerset Yeomanry 10/11/14

[BottsGreys]

I am researching No. 888 Sgt. Charles Henry Gibbs of the 1st North Somerset Yeomanry. Info in his pension indicates that he was wounded in the head and buttocks near Ypres on 10/11/14. I was wondering if anyone might have the unit's war diary for that date.

Actually, (according to a newspaper clipping) his brother L/Cpl. Frederick W. Gibbs was also wounded near Ypres early in the war, but I don't have a date.

Thanks for reading this.

Chris

[Ron Clifton]

Hello Chris

The diary is held at the National Archives in Kew in the following file:

WO 95/1153 1/1 North Somerset Yeomanry 1914 Nov. - 1918 Mar.

I realise you will not be able to visit in person but you may be able to order a copy online through their website:

www.nationalarchives.gov.uk.

You will only need to order the pages for Nov 1914 which should keep the price down. Be warned, though, that War Diaries rarely mention individual men by name if they are not officers.

Ron

[BottsGreys]

Hi Ron:

Thanks for your swift reply. I should have noted that I found the file at Kew online and was all set to order a digitized copy when I saw that they now won't search/pull anything from WO 95.

Sorry for the confusion. As my nephew would say--my bad!

Chris

[nf3996]

I'm a bit late spotting this request, but I've also been researching the North Somerset Yeomanry in 1914 - my great-great uncle, 942 Serjeant Alfred Ernest Cleall, died of wounds on 17 November 1914 following the NSY's actions at Zillebeke, near Ypres. I visited TNA last month and looked at the NSY war diary. The entries for November 1914 are transcribed below.

I hope this is useful.

Alan

War diary of the North Somerset Yeomanry: November 1914

2-xi-14

Forest Row

The regiment strength 26 officers 1 warrant officer and 474 other ranks with 500 horses under the command of Lt Col G C Glyn DSO left Forest Row in 4 special trains to Southampton where it embarked during the evening on SS Rosetti.

3-xi-14

At sea

The Rosetti reached Havre at 3pm and the regiment disembarked and moved off at 6pm to a rest camp at La Hêve 2 ½ miles NW of Havre. The transport wagons did not leave the dock till 8pm.

4-xi-14

La Hêve

In the morning the regiment was inspected by the base Commandant Col H B Williams DSO. The regiment completed its equipment from Ordnance. 5 wagons received from Deptford on 1-xi-14 having become unserviceable were changed.

5-xi-14

La Hêve

The regiment received orders to entrain for St Omer and left in 3 special trains between 3.45pm and 6.45pm.

6-xi-14

On rail

The regiment arrived at St Omer and spent the night in French artillery barracks there.

7-xi-14

St Omer

The regiment paraded at 10.30am and marched to its billeting area in and around Esquerdes. The men in sheds and horses in the open.

8-xi-14

Esquerdes

In the afternoon the regiment was practised in digging trenches.

9-xi-14

Esquerdes

The regiment paraded at 12.30pm for drill. 1 officer and 2 NCOs per squadron under Major A H Gibbs went to Blendecques to see the entrenchments being made there.

10-xi-14

Esquerdes

The regiment paraded at 8.15am and went to Blendecques to take part in the entrenching scheme. It returned at 2.30pm.

11-xi-14

Esquerdes

The regiment paraded for drill at 8.45am. At 10.50am while the regiment was still out at the field orders were received to march at once to billets around St Sylvestre. An officer (Capt J H S Tyssen) was sent on a motor bicycle to report to GOC 1^st Army Corps at Chateau de Trois Tours Vlamertinghe for orders.

The regiment marched at 1pm and billeted that night in 3 farms close to St Sylvestre arriving about 8.45pm. The night was wet and stormy. The horses were in the open. Capt Tyssen brought orders to proceed to Hooge without distressing the horses.

12-xi-14

St Sylvestre

The regiment marched to Dranoutre at 10am via Bailleul arriving there at 2.30pm and billeting in 4 farms. The horses were in the open. The water for horses was not good. The regiment's arrival was reported to GOC 1^st Army Corps.

13-xi-14

Dranoutre

Acting on orders from GOC 1^st Army Corps the regiment marched at 10.30am to Ypres via Locre and Dickebusch to Ypres railway station and there along the railway to Halte on the Menin Road. The regiment's arrival was reported to GOC 3^rd Cavalry Division. The regiment was posted to the 6^th Cavalry Brigade.

The regiment went into billets in a chateau next to L'Ecole de Bienfaisance on the Menin Road ½ mile E of Halte. While the regiment was coming along the railway it was shelled. In these billets the horses were tied up round the sides of the field. The regiment was ordered to proceed to the trenches near Zillebeke in support and marched at 4pm. The men carried 200 rounds per man. On arrival the regiment halted for an hour and not being required for duty returned to billets. The billets were shelled during the day and night several shells falling amongst the horses which however escaped without injury.

14-xi-14

Ypres

During the night the billets were shelled so the regiment saddled up at 3.30am and marched at daylight to the railway just N of Halte on the Menin Road. The horses were tied along the west side of the cutting and the men made small dugouts on the E side. Echelon B remained in billets.

At 1pm the Brigade received orders to march to a billeting area near Vlamertinghe. The regiment was billeted in 2 farms. The billets were very cramped and the water supply bad. The weather was cold snow and the horses not being under shelter felt it. The regiment was warned to find 300 rifles for the trenches on 15-xi-14 for 48 hours.

15-xi-14

Vlamertinghe

Orders were received at 2.45am to saddle up and stand to at 6.30am. The regiment paraded mounted at 3.30pm [am?]. The men carried 200 rounds per man. The Brigade concentrated near Ypres railway station at which point the horses were sent back. The regiment under Lt Col G Glyn DSO marched dismounted to Zillebeke via the railway line which leads to Comines.

On arrival at Zillebeke C Squadron under Maj H G Spencer was ordered to join the 10^th Hussars. A Squadron under Maj G Lubbock, B Squadron under Capt F A C Liebert and the Maxims under Maj H B Mathews were placed under the orders of Col O Smith Bingham DSO 3^rd D[ragoon] Guards and told to occupy the trenches SE of Zillebeke. The relief of the 1^st Life Guards was effected at 7.30pm. A Squadron occupied the centre trench in the firing line with the Maxims between 2 squadrons 3^rd D Guards. B Squadron was in the reserve trenches.

The night 15/16 was fairly quiet but there was a certain amount of intermittent shelling and sniping and a small attack which was easily repulsed.

16-xi-14

Zillebeke

During the day there was continuous shelling and sniping and a few casualties from shrapnel. At 6.30pm B Squadron and one troop of A squadron under 2/Lieut N Bailward relieved A Squadron which went into the reserve trenches. The Maxim guns stayed in the firing line. There was a small attack about 9pm which was easily repulsed.

17-xi-14

Zillebeke

9am heavy shelling started and the trenches were searched by shrapnel and HE shells which gave off repulsive fumes. 2 German aeroplanes passed up the lines followed by a 3^rd. The trenches had already been damaged by shell fire and as no RE [Royal Engineers] were available they were repaired by the men as best they could but owing to the softness of the soil and no materials for revetting being available the trenches were soon rendered vulnerable again.

A determined attack was made at noon which was repulsed with heavy loss causing the regiment many casualties including Capt Liebert who was killed. The attack was renewed and Brig Gen Lord Cavan was now informed and asked for reinforcements. He sent up 2 coys Coldstream Gds who occupied the reserve trenches at 3.30pm. Meanwhile the attack had been continued and Lt J S Davey killed. 30 men of A Squadron were sent up under Capt R E English to replace casualties. Later on the remainder of A Squadron under Maj G Lubbock was sent up.

The enemy made another determined attack at dusk but was repulsed with heavy loss making it unnecessary to call up the Coldstream Guards. The enemy sent up a balloon at midday with flags attached and in the evening used magnesium light to direct the attack. The relief of the trenches was carried out at 6.30pm by the 2^nd Life Guards in the firing line and R[oyal] Horse Guards in reserve. C Squadron came under heavy shell fire in the reserve trenches but did not occupy the front trenches.

The regiment marched dismounted to Ypres where it picked up its horses and returned to its billets near Vlamertinghe.

Casualties - Capt F G C Liebert and Lt J S Davey killed. Capt S G Bates 7^th Hussars (adjutant) and 2/Lt A N Bailward wounded. NCOs and men killed 22. Wounded 39. Missing 3. Total casualties 64. Out of these 59 were sustained by the 200 rifles in trenches at Zillebeke.

The weather has been bitterly cold the last few days and the horses suffered from exposure.

18/19-xi-14

Vlamertinghe

The regiment remained in billets.

20-xi-14

The transport moved off at 7.30am and the Brigade at 3pm to a billeting area just N or Merville. The roads were very slippery owing to frost and the regiment did not reach its billets till between 12 and 2am. Each Squadron and the Maxim gun occupied a group of farms and regimental HQ were established at the Chateau Bultot [2?] ¾ mile N of Merville on the Hazebrook Road. All the horses were placed under cover.

The rest of the diary for 1914 records that from 21 November until 13 December the regiment remained in billets at Merville undergoing training. On 14 December it moved to billets at Bailleul, with the horses tied up in the open and the men in glass houses ¼ mile away. The regiment stayed there one more day and then returned to its original billets in Merville on 16 December. It saw out the rest of the month there in more training, finally leaving Merville on 28 January 1915.

[nf3996]

Incidentally, do you know when 888 Sgt. Charles Henry Gibbs joined up? My great-great- uncle's number is only 54 numbers later, but his service records haven't survived. I'd like to establish if he was in the NSY before the war started (I presume he was as he was already a Serjeant by November 1914).

Thanks,

Alan

[BottsGreys]

Hi Alan:

Thanks for the interesting post! I have just looked at Gibbs' pension, and I believe I originally misread the handwriting on his date of wounding. Instead of 10/11/14, I believe it reads G.S.W. 18/11/14--it shows he was sent by field ambulance on that date and arrived at a casualty clearing station and the next day, the 19th, he was in a hospital in Rouen. The only thing is, the War Diary appears to indicate that the were out of action on the 18th--perhaps he was wounded during the battle of the 17th.

In answer to your question, Gibbs first enlisted in the unit 14 March, 1906, age 18, and in May 1908 and each year thereafter up to 1914 he reenlisted for one-year periods. Pension shows Gibbs as being promoted to Sergeant on 9/9/14.

Hope this helps,

Chris

[nf3996]

Hi Alan:

Thanks for the interesting post! I have just looked at Gibbs' pension, and I believe I originally misread the handwriting on his date of wounding. Instead of 10/11/14, I believe it reads G.S.W. 18/11/14--it shows he was sent by field ambulance on that date and arrived at a casualty clearing station and the next day, the 19th, he was in a hospital in Rouen. The only thing is, the War Diary appears to indicate that the were out of action on the 18th--perhaps he was wounded during the battle of the 17th.

In answer to your question, Gibbs first enlisted in the unit 14 March, 1906, age 18, and in May 1908 and each year thereafter up to 1914 he reenlisted for one-year periods. Pension shows Gibbs as being promoted to Sergeant on 9/9/14.

Hope this helps,

Chris

Chris,

Yes, I would think Gibbs was most likely wounded in the fighting on 17 November - that was a black day for the NSY.

Thanks for the information on when Gibbs signed up. That reinforces my belief that my great-great uncle had some pre-war service too. I'd also started a new thread about his number in the 'Soldiers' section today, which has caused some confusion as the number 942 (and 888 for that matter) would seem to fit in with other numbers issued in late 1914 (in the case of A E Cleall, actually after he had died). Maybe these were pre-war numbers that those men retained. The NSY numbering remains a mystery to me at present!

Alan

[nf3996]

Chris,

You might also find the following of interest too. The 6th Cavalry Field Ambulance was attached to the North Somerset Yeomanry, and when I was at TNA I transcribed the entries for the dates when A E Cleall was at the front. It looks like Gibbs could have been in a Field Ambulance shortly after midnight on 18 November before the FA got back to billets at 2.00am.

Regards,

Alan

War diary of the 6^th Cavalry Field Ambulance: November 1914

13/11

4.30pm

Sent out all light and two heavy wagons to the same trenches [Kleinzillebeke ridge] under one officer. Ordered heavy wagons to remain in Zillebeke village.

10.30pm

The officer returning having evacuated many wounded and reported that a heavy ambulance wagon had been lost. Apparently a shell burst in the village and the drivers must have bolted, for the wagon galloped off alone. It was empty. [The drivers were later arrested and sentenced to 28 days field punishment].

Heavy rain. Orders to move to east of Ypres tomorrow.

14/11

8am near 'R' in Ypres [location on map]

Shelled again last night. 67 casualties amongst horses of 1^st R[oyal] Dragoons in the field next NSY horses, but none of latter hit. Sent men mounted and on foot to search for wagon, but no trace of it seen.

2pm

Marched to new billets at crossroads SE of Vlamertinghe at Groenenjager. Search made for the lost wagon, near Zillebeke but without result. Brigade was in reserve today.

4pm

Reached billets.

Heavy rain.

15/11

6am Groenenjager

Sent Sgt York to search near trenches at Kleinzillebeke for lost wagon.

4pm

Nothing seen of lost wagon. Visited A Section of coy [?]. FA Brigade went back to Kleinzillebeke trenches in the evening.

Very bad weather for the past 14 days. Ground swampy.

16/11

2pm Groenenjager

Started off with all light and heavy wagons of both sections of the FA. Shelled passing through Ypres, which was being bombarded.

4pm level crossing on Ypres – Menin road

Sent back A Section less one light wagon. Proceeded to the trenches in Zillebeke. Brigade were holding two lines, one between Zillebeke and Gheluvelt, and the other on the Kleinzillebeke ridge. Had all wounded in hospital by 7.30pm.

9.30pm

Arrived back in billets. On searching the level crossing heard that casualties were small.

Heavy rain.

17/11

2pm Groenenjager

Went via Ypres to same trenches as yesterday. Took light wagons only.

3.30pm Zillebeke

Halted in Zillebeke. Shelled on the way there. One officer's horse hit by small fragment of howitzer shell. Went up to trenches and ordered wagons to follow at dusk.

5pm

Wagons arrived. Numerous casualties, very scattered. Two attacks on trenches while we were there.

11.30pm

Got all wounded away to clearing hospital at Ypres [No 3 Clearing Hospital situated at L'Ecole de Bienfaisance?].

18/11

2am Groenenjager

Arrived back in billets.

8pm

Brigade rested all day, nothing doing.

Snowed. Froze hard.

[nf3996]

I've now unearthed some information about Charles Henry Gibbs' wounds - it turns out he was a close friend of Alfred Cleall. I paid a visit to the British Library Newspaper Library at Colindale shortly after Christmas and spent much of the day poring over crumbling copies of the Bath Chronicle. The issue of 19 December 1914 contained an extract from a letter from Gibbs reporting on the fighting of 17 November under the headline 'How Sergeant Alf Cleall was wounded':

'Alf, my best pal, was shot through the neck. He and I were shooting down the Germans for all we were worth. It was for us either to shoot them down or have the cold steel. Alf and I fired round after round. I gave my brave young brother (Trooper F Gibbs, also wounded) and Trooper Gay orders to hand us up the rounds as we wanted them and they could not clear the sand off them quick enough for us, so you can tell how we were firing. When we saw the Germans coming up on our right, I had four bullets through my cap and the fifth grazed my head, and Alf said, "Mind, Charlie, let me have a go at them on the right", and no sooner had he turned round than he went down like a log. A German on our front had shot him through the neck. He bled freely and I bandaged him up as best I could. Personally I never thought I should get through it. I was waiting for my time to come for it seemed most certain. I dragged him (Sergt Cleall) out on one side because he was getting trodden on and the shells were knocking down our trenches. As the Germans came running through, so they were shot dead. My troop suffered very badly. We were with B Squadron. I saw my officer (Mr Bailward) shot down. I never had time to see to him as we had to keep shooting them down or they would have been on top of us.

When night came I found B Squadron had been relieved, so I went to find Alf and he was just in the same place as I had left him. He asked for a drink of water. I tried to lift him up like I used to on the football field, but I soon found I was not as strong as I used to be and you couldn't stand for mud. I had made up my mind to get a stretcher for him, but that was the last I saw of him. I remember no more till I felt an officer giving me a drink of tea, and then when I came round I saw that I had been buried. I was then taken to a field hospital at Ypres'.

So, Gibbs appears to have been wounded in the head during the fighting of 17 November, then buried in a trench collapse later that day.

I hope this is helpful to your research. I have certainly found the Bath Chronicle a mine of information regarding the North Somerset Yeomanry and the events of November 1914.

Alan

[BottsGreys]

Hi Alan:

A great find, and I appreciate your sharing it. Confirms the date of the Gibbs brothers'wounding, and great detail in the letter as to what transpired that day with them and Alfred who, as you noted, was clearly a close prewar friend. Thanks again for you continued interest in this--this is fantastic stuff.

Below is are the Gibbs brothers with their parents, Charles Henry Gibbs on the left, Frederick W, Gibbs on the right. If you PM me with your email address, I will send you a larger scan if you want.

Chris

[nf3996]

Hi Chris,

Many thanks. PM now sent.

Regards,

Alan

[Timbob1001]

An interesting thread - just researching 265 Pte Francis William Tucker, NS Yeomanry kileld on 17/11/14 presumably in the same action.

Was a regimental history ever produced?

Thanks

Tim

[nf3996]

Tim,

I'm not aware of a full regimental history of the NSY, but A S Flower printed a small local publication entitled A Short Report on the North Somerset Yeomanry during the European War, 1914-1918. This was published privately by the regiment in Bath in 1919. The Imperial War Museum have a copy in their collection and they photocopied it for me a couple of years ago. In addition, there is Lt J B Bickersteth's History of the 6th Cavalry Brigade 1914-1919, originally published in 1920, but reprinted by the Naval & Military Press in 2003. However, neither of these publications give as much detail as the regiment's war diary.

Coincidentally, I was at The National Archives yesterday looking at the war diaries of some of the other regiments engaged in the 17 November action (1st Royal Dragoons, 3rd Royal Dragoons, 10th Hussars). What I really need now in order to make sense of where each regiment was is a annotated map. Other than that in The Crofton Diaries, I've not seen one. Maybe I'll try to draw something myself when I've read all my notes.

Alan

[BillyH]

I have a copy of the 6th Cavalry Brigade war diary (North Somerset Yeomanry was a part) for this period if anyone is interested?

BillyH.

[nf3996]

I have a copy of the 6th Cavalry Brigade war diary (North Somerset Yeomanry was a part) for this period if anyone is interested?

BillyH.

Billy,

I'd be interested in what it records for the month of November 1914. Although I've looked at several individual regiments' diaries, I've not yet seen the Brigade's war diary.

Regards,

Alan

[BillyH]

Alan,

Please PM me your e-mail address and I will send you a copy of the months diary.

BillyH.

[GEP]

Having just become a new member I found these postings very relevant to my research. My father, 444 L/cpl Percy Edward Hale was wounded, shrapnel in shoulder, on 27 September 1915 at Ypres and consequently, that was end of his war. I have many original documents relating to this incident and his long recovery but was wondering if anyone could direct me to the War Diary pages for this date as I understand the diaries are being digitalised and are not available for download. I wonder if Percy knew the Gibb brothers? Percy was born in Keynsham, Somerset and enlisted in the territorial unit of The North Somerset Yeomanry and was conscripted into embodied service on 4 August 1914.

[nf3996]

'GEP',

The NSY war diary was still available at the National Archives last week. I looked at it again then (having pre-ordered it), but this time I had to do so in their invigilation room, ie. the room was supervised. I don't know if that means it's about to be digitized, or maybe it is already being done and I was just allowed to see it temporarily.

Alan

[GEP]

Alan,

Many thanks for that. The opportunity to access the NSY war diary is just what I am looking for. I shall contact National Archives see if it possible to consult appropriate days by downloads as I am unable to get to Britain at present. It may also be possible to find someone to do so on my behalf.

Once again, greatful thank thanks for your contact

Philip.

[GEP]

Alan

Have contacted TNA and they have confirmed that the dairies will not be available until Spring 2013 because, yes, they are being digitized..I shall, of course, look again before then.!

Philip

[GEP]

Billy

Have just read your posting regarding 6th Cavalry Brigade's war diary and would be very interested to know if you have anything for the month of September 1915 as my father was wounded on the 27 September 1915. Can't access NSY's war diaries at TNA as they are being digitized.

thanks

Philip

[BillyH]

Hello Philip,

Sorry for the delay, I have been on holiday.

Unfortunately I only have the 6th Brigades diary to July 1915 so I can't help you.

However I also have a book "History of the 6th Cavalry Brigade 1914-1918" and could send you extracts from September 1915 if you want?

Regards, BillyH.

[gregsamways]

Hello all,

This is all amazing! Thanks for posting. I am currently trying to compile Sidney George Samways' history in the NYC. I have an idea to compile the history of the NYC on a collaborative Google Map, linked to documents in Google Drive. Is anybody interested in collaborating / compiling stuff in one public place? Ultimately a collaborative NSY website would be great.

I would be particularly interested in finding out who the other guys in the Forest Row picture are. My grandfather is top left.

PM me if you want a higher res image or you are interested in collaborative mapping.

Greg

[GEP]

Hi Greg

Would be very glad of a bigger image as I think it could be my father far right, front row.

Thanks

Philip

[Phil Evans]

Hello Greg,

I would very much like a high-res of the Forest Row picture, please.

I was brought up near Forest Row Camp and have always been very interested in it. Pictures of it are hard to come by and especially NSY as they were not there very long. If you are interested, I have a general view of it in the early days (sent by a man in the Hants Yeomanry). The attached photo is of the South West Mounted Brigade face on the monument that now stands there.

I don't think you have accumulated enough posts yet to use the PM system, but a few short replies here should remedy that.

Phil