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Remembered Today:

RFA Brigade and Divisional Ammunition Columns, more questions


E Wilcock

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(I have moved this question from the wrong place I posted it.)

A service record from 1914-1915 shows a man recruited in the RFA 4th South Midland Howitzer Brigade transfered first on 15 Dec 1914 to the Division A.C. and then going to France 31 March 1915 with 1/1 South Midland Divisional Ammunition Column.

Thread

leaves me with some further questions.

First, what does Divisional mean?

The TF RFA Brigades had their own Brigade Ammo Columns until May 1916.

Was there a separate Divisional ammo column or as the previous thread suggests, is it that in the field, 1914 or 1915, these Artillery ammo columns were supplying ammo for the whole of their division, including the infantry?

In May 1916 the artillery ammo columns were re-classified as Divisional A. C s. Were they actually amalgamated with a pre-existing "Divisional " A.C. ? Or did units in the ammo column continue much as before?

My understanding is that after May 1916 the Divisional ammo column continued to be divided into Sections. Does this mean that the units went on working with the RFA Brigades they had served before the re-organisation?

Is there any source material for these Columns or Sections, similar to Brigade Diaries?

It is my understanding that Artillery units were expected to make good their losses by drawing on their ammo column personnel and then on new recruits from the TA units back in the UK. Did they continue to do this from their section of the column?

I'd be grateful for comments and suggestions.

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Just to get you started I have checked references to Ammunition Columns in 'History of the Royal Artillery (Western Front) which was as follows:- In May 1916 GHQ proposed the abolition of Brigade Ammunition Columns and the re-organisation of Divisional Ammunition Columns into an A and a B Echelon. 'A' Echelon was to accompany the division at all times, but 'B' Echelon would only arrive when needed and would spend much of its time under Corps control. It then goes on to say that this would reduce the amount of rounds carried for the artillery. These measures apparently reduced the amount of personnel involved although insisting that the full total of artillery ammunition had to be carried. This was met by giving each artillery brigade its own section of the new 'A' Echelons. When I began this post I had assumed that these columns carried only artillery ammunition, it does look as if the column also carried small arms upwards. I presume that the personnel were drawn from the Army Service Corps, RA and perhaps Ordnance Corps. I will look for the contributions that I am sure will follow from our Gunner experts.

Tony P

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Hello Mr Wilcock, and welcome to the Forum.

TF artillery brigades had brigade ammunition columns in peacetime, but Regular brigades did not: they were set up on mobilisation, as were the separate Div Amm Columns for both Regulars and TF. This is probably how your chap found himself in the South Midland (later 48th) Div Amm Column.

Broadly speaking, a Brigade Amm Column carried ammo for its own brigade and SAA for one of the division's infantry brigades (for rifles and m/guns). It was about the same size as a battery: say 200 all ranks. In the howitzer brigade, the BAC did not carry any SAA.

The Div Amm Column was divided into four sections. Three supplied gun ammo and SAA to one BAC each, and the fourth supplied the BAC of the howitzer brigade and the heavy battery. It had 568 all ranks.

In May 1916, when the brigades themselves were reorganised, the BACs were effectively amalgamated with their DAC, which itself was split into two echelons as described by Tony.

Ron

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Divisional Ammunition Columns did have War Diaries but they are tricky to find, because of the way they are catalogued. Here are the references for 48th Division's artillery:

WO 95/2749 Divisional Troops

WO 95/2749 240 South Midland Brigade Royal Field Artillery 1915 Apr. - 1917 Oct.

WO 95/2749 241 South Midland Brigade Royal Field Artillery 1915 Apr. - 1917 Oct.

WO 95/2750

WO 95/2750 Divisional Troops

WO 95/2750 242 South Midland Brigade Royal Field Artillery 1915 Apr. - 1916 Dec.

WO 95/2750 243 South Midland Brigade Royal Field Artillery 1915 Apr. - 1916 Oct.

WO 95/2750 Divisional Trench Mortar Batteries 1916 Apr. - 1917 Oct.

WO 95/2750 Divisional Ammunition Column 1915 Apr. - 1917 Oct.

The division went to Italy in Nov 1017 and its diaries continue in a different block.

So, if you search for the diary of "48th Divisional Ammunition Column" you wouldn't find it as such!

Ron

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One of the key points about being Divisional is that the DAC was under the Command of the Commander Royal Artillery for that Division. The ammunition demands, and movement / supply of ammunition from the DAC was a Royal Artillery responsibility. It would allow the CRA to have the ammunition for the fighting troops on wheels, and consequently move and support the Division.

The movement and supply of ammunition to the DAC would be an Army Service Corps responsibility.

This post from Dick Flory outlines information on the 5oth Division DAC, I would think that as a Territorial Force the 48th Division would have mobilised in a similar fashion.

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Thanks so much for the PRO file number for the Divisional Amm Column war diary. Because you are right, I hadnt found that.

Does anyone have any idea what 1/1 means, in the context of a posting to 1/1 DAC Dec 1914?

This is the South Midland Division.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I have a soldier listed with 4th DAC on his medal card, yet 11th Corps Motor Transport Company Royal Army Service Corps on CWGC. How do these reconcile? He is Private Orlando H I WOODWARD M/29732 d. 15/12/18, buried TOURCOING.

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Hello Simon

Does his MIC show that he was in the RFA at all, in addition to being in the ASC? If not, I suspect that DAC should actually be DAP, Divisional Ammunition PARK. These were ASC MT units, normally grouped at Corps level, and amalgamated with Div Supply Columns, also ASC MT units, in March 1918 to form Div (or Corps Troops) MT Companies.

Both the service number and the use of "Private" suggest that he was in the ASC. An RFA man would have been a Gunner or Driver.

Or he may have been one of the very small number of ASC drivers attached to the DAC to drive its first0line transport (i.e. its own baggage and supplies).

The ASC gained their Royal title in Nov 1918.

Ron

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Thanks Ron - it's definitely '4th Div Ammun Col ASC' - served from the 16th August 1914 and died Dec 1918!

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Hello Simon

Then it's a mistake, either on the original MIC or (more likely) a transcription error, if you got a "typed" version from TNA or Ancestry. Div Amm Columns were units of the RFA, not the ASC.

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  • 10 years later...

Hi! I have a similar question. My great grandfather has this written on his record:

 

33rd B.A.C RFA and then under promotions it says 2nd division and bombardier. Any help on decoding this would be a great help. 

 

Thanks! 

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29 minutes ago, Rose Jones said:

Hi! I have a similar question. My great grandfather has this written on his record:

 

33rd B.A.C RFA and then under promotions it says 2nd division and bombardier. Any help on decoding this would be a great help. 

 

Thanks! 


Rose, your great grandfather must certainly have been in the Royal Artillery, as Bombardier was at that time the first substantive rank (promotion) above gunner.  He would have worn a single stripe on each upper arm.


His unit at the time of the annotation on his record must then have been the 33rd Brigade Ammunition Column (BAC).  The BAC provided the  ammunition resupply for the intimate support artillery of the 33rd Infantry Brigade.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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Thank you ever so much! So helpful :D

 

 

 

21 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:


Rose, your great grandfather must certainly have been in the Royal Artillery, as Bombardier was at that time the first substantive rank (promotion) above gunner.  He would have worn a single stripe on each upper arm.


His unit at the time of the annotation on his record must then have been the 33rd Brigade Ammunition Column (BAC).  The BAC provided the  ammunition resupply for the intimate support artillery of the 33rd Infantry Brigade.

 

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If i can clarify that, the BAC supplied ammunition to the gun batteries of 33rd Brigade RFA [a unit in 8th Division = 32nd, 33rd and 36th Batteries - and by 1916 with 55th battery added - not the Infantry Brigade with that number,which was in 11th Division..). The BAC unit [as with most Brigade Ammunition Columns ]was dissolved May1916 and men will have been posted elsewhere, in the first instance centralised to (8th) Divisional Ammunition Column, but also other units as not all the surplus men were required. That is a likely moment for BAC men to have changed unit, but his record may have a date for his posting.. Reinforcements for gun batteries were commonly supplied  through the Ammunition Columns so if he landed up in 2nd Division he could well have been landed up in one of its RFA Brigades (by late war = 41st Brigade RFA, 36th Brigade RFA). I know of a Bdr Howell who was originally in 33rd Brigade and later in 36th Brigade in 2nd Division...

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16 minutes ago, battiscombe said:

If i can clarify that, the BAC supplied ammunition to the gun batteries of 33rd Brigade RFA [a unit in 8th Division = 32nd, 33rd and 36th Batteries - and by 1916 with 55th battery added - not the Infantry Brigade with that number,which was in 11th Division..). The BAC unit [as with most Brigade Ammunition Columns ]was dissolved May1916 and men will have been posted elsewhere, in the first instance centralised to (8th) Divisional Ammunition Column, but also other units as not all the surplus men were required. That is a likely moment for BAC men to have changed unit, but his record may have a date for his posting.. Reinforcements for gun batteries were commonly supplied  through the Ammunition Columns so if he landed up in 2nd Division he could well have been landed up in one of its RFA Brigades (by late war = 41st Brigade RFA, 36th Brigade RFA). I know of a Bdr Howell who was originally in 33rd Brigade and later in 36th Brigade in 2nd Division...


Thank you Battiscombe, mea culpa.  I do appreciate you pointing unintended errors out as I do not ever mean to mislead a poster.  Am kicking myself as what you’ve said is manifestly obvious really, but the sweltering heat here has obviously affected my brain.  I have sent a PM to Rose drawing her attention to this.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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1 hour ago, battiscombe said:

If i can clarify that, the BAC supplied ammunition to the gun batteries of 33rd Brigade RFA [a unit in 8th Division = 32nd, 33rd and 36th Batteries - and by 1916 with 55th battery added - not the Infantry Brigade with that number,which was in 11th Division..). The BAC unit [as with most Brigade Ammunition Columns ]was dissolved May1916 and men will have been posted elsewhere, in the first instance centralised to (8th) Divisional Ammunition Column, but also other units as not all the surplus men were required. That is a likely moment for BAC men to have changed unit, but his record may have a date for his posting.. Reinforcements for gun batteries were commonly supplied  through the Ammunition Columns so if he landed up in 2nd Division he could well have been landed up in one of its RFA Brigades (by late war = 41st Brigade RFA, 36th Brigade RFA). I know of a Bdr Howell who was originally in 33rd Brigade and later in 36th Brigade in 2nd Division...

Thanks so much for the clarification. That makes a lot of sense. His promotion record shows a change to the 2nd division so perhaps that was where he moved to after it was dissolved. The only information it tells me on that sheet however is 2nd division and bombardier so can't be sure of the brigade. 

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