tjec Posted 25 June , 2009 Share Posted 25 June , 2009 Hi all, What do the prefixes WR- (Royal Engineers) and M2/ (ASC) indicate when used in serial numbers? Thanks in advance, Norman Edit - Just read the ASC post below and that gives me the M2/ prefix information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItemCo16527 Posted 25 June , 2009 Share Posted 25 June , 2009 WR is the prefix for RE Waterways & Railways troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjec Posted 25 June , 2009 Author Share Posted 25 June , 2009 Thank you Jeff C. Regards, Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughfw Posted 25 June , 2009 Share Posted 25 June , 2009 hi the M2 prefix for the ASC i think is for an electrician Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItemCo16527 Posted 25 June , 2009 Share Posted 25 June , 2009 You're welcome, Norman. Glad I could help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 25 June , 2009 Share Posted 25 June , 2009 WR is the prefix for RE Waterways & Railways troops. Strictly speaking the WR prefix is for units within the RE Transportation Branch in general as it also included the Roads & Quarries Troops. It probably won't be possible to identify which particular unit he served with unless a service record survives but based upon his WR/ number it should at least be possible to identify which of the Transportation branches he was with if nothing else. Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItemCo16527 Posted 25 June , 2009 Share Posted 25 June , 2009 Hi Steve, Thanks for posting that. I'd never heard that before. Anytime I've looked up WR, it always just said Waterways & Railways. I'll keep it mind, as I'm sure that bit of knowledge will come in quite handy in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjec Posted 25 June , 2009 Author Share Posted 25 June , 2009 Thank you hughfw. Regards, Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjec Posted 25 June , 2009 Author Share Posted 25 June , 2009 Hi Steve, Thanks for the information. Interestingly, on his MIC the man is down as rank = PNR (Pioneer) not SPR (Sapper), would this indicate a particular trade or skill? His number was WR-21211. Regards, Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 25 June , 2009 Share Posted 25 June , 2009 Hi Steve, Thanks for posting that. I'd never heard that before. Anytime I've looked up WR, it always just said Waterways & Railways. Done it myself many times Thanks for the information. Interestingly, on his MIC the man is down as rank = PNR (Pioneer) not SPR (Sapper), would this indicate a particular trade or skill? His number was WR-21211. Norman The rank of Pioneer indicates that he didn't have a particular trade or skill, certainly not as far as the Royal Engineers were concerned, and would probably have just been a labourer for example. The rank of Sapper was the Royal Engineers way of denoting men with recognised trades/skills etc. and who had passed the requisite Trades tests. The five digit number suggests he was with the Roads and Quarry Companies. I think it more likely that it would have been one of the Road Construction Companies as I'm pretty sure all the Quarrymen were 'qualified' Sappers. Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjec Posted 25 June , 2009 Author Share Posted 25 June , 2009 Thanks again Steve, I have just obtained his pair, have his MIC but there are no other papers (yet). Regards, Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrim Posted 25 June , 2009 Share Posted 25 June , 2009 Done it myself many times Norman The rank of Pioneer indicates that he didn't have a particular trade or skill, certainly not as far as the Royal Engineers were concerned, and would probably have just been a labourer for example. The rank of Sapper was the Royal Engineers way of denoting men with recognised trades/skills etc. and who had passed the requisite Trades tests. The five digit number suggests he was with the Roads and Quarry Companies. I think it more likely that it would have been one of the Road Construction Companies as I'm pretty sure all the Quarrymen were 'qualified' Sappers. Regards Steve Steve, I wonder if I might hitchhike here. What unit would a Sapper with the number WR 508393 be in? He was certified as a Hammerman on one page and a Blacksmiths Striker on another. (I assume these are the same occupation.) At one point he was with the 277th Railway Comany, if that helps. Thanks! Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 25 June , 2009 Share Posted 25 June , 2009 Steve, What unit would a Sapper with the number WR 508393 be in? He was certified as a Hammerman on one page and a Blacksmiths Striker on another. (I assume these are the same occupation.) At one point he was with the 277th Railway Comany Bob His WR/5 prefixed number suggests to me that he was transferred from the Railways to the Inland Waterways & Docks branch of the Royal Engineers, possibly to one of the Port Construction Companies. Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 25 June , 2009 Share Posted 25 June , 2009 That's not necessarily so I'm afraid. I have records of men who enlisted in 1915/16 who enlisted directly into the IWT and had 5000 series WR numbers, including a Warrant Officer Tug Master. Indeed, it appears that the earlier you joined the IWT, the bigger the WR number you got. It does seem to me however, that a systematic and concerted study of this subject would be worthwhile, rather than individual furrows being ploughed. If anyone is interested, please pm or e-mail me. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 25 June , 2009 Share Posted 25 June , 2009 I have records of men who enlisted in 1915/16 who enlisted directly into the IWT and had 5000 series WR numbers, including a Warrant Officer Barge Master. Indeed, it appears that the earlier you joined the IWT, the bigger the WR number you got. Terry We're agreed then , WR/5 prefixed numbers are IWD? It wasn't my intention to imply that they were issued because of a transfer from the Railways but I can see that my post could be interpreted that way. I merely meant that this was an IWD number so in this man's case he must have been transferred from the Railways at some time prior to the renumbering. Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave ricketts Posted 26 June , 2009 Share Posted 26 June , 2009 Done it myself many times Norman The rank of Pioneer indicates that he didn't have a particular trade or skill, certainly not as far as the Royal Engineers were concerned, and would probably have just been a labourer for example. The rank of Sapper was the Royal Engineers way of denoting men with recognised trades/skills etc. and who had passed the requisite Trades tests. The five digit number suggests he was with the Roads and Quarry Companies. I think it more likely that it would have been one of the Road Construction Companies as I'm pretty sure all the Quarrymen were 'qualified' Sappers. Regards Steve I would agree with Steve's general conclusions, that it is an RC Company. I have begun a database of Quarry Company men, whose general number patterns are between WR275xx and WR307xx. There are exceptions, as usual. (Men on Territorial enlistments or pre-war regulars were numbered in two separate series.) They were renumbered in 1918, and according to the applicable ACI, this was done on the basis of a nominal roll generated by the unit. Therefore, for the Quarrying Companies, the numbering block approximates to 198, 199, 321-329, 348, with each unit in very approximate alphabetical order. I think the records I have looked at suggest that 346 RCC men are in the low WR27xxx range. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjec Posted 27 June , 2009 Author Share Posted 27 June , 2009 Hello all, good information as usual from the members, The MIC shows that this man also had the number RE 228002 any clues here? Regards, Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 27 June , 2009 Share Posted 27 June , 2009 Railways - either railway operating, including light railways, or railway construction. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 27 June , 2009 Share Posted 27 June , 2009 The MIC shows that this man also had the number RE 228002 any clues here? Norman Looking at the MIC, RE is in the unit column, so Royal Engineers. The number 228002 is his number prior to being renumbered in 1918 and judging from other similar numbers appears to have been issued betwen the 15th and 20th January 1917 to men in the Road Construction Companies. I can't say definitively which one but 305th or 306th RCC appear the more likely. Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjec Posted 29 June , 2009 Author Share Posted 29 June , 2009 Thank you all for the information. Regards, Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItemCo16527 Posted 30 June , 2009 Share Posted 30 June , 2009 I wonder if it might be worth it to try to start a database of regimental numbers with the WR prefix to try to establish a definitive breakdown of which sections of the Royal Engineers were given which WR number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrim Posted 30 June , 2009 Share Posted 30 June , 2009 Norman Looking at the MIC, RE is in the unit column, so Royal Engineers. The number 228002 is his number prior to being renumbered in 1918 and judging from other similar numbers appears to have been issued betwen the 15th and 20th January 1917 to men in the Road Construction Companies. I can't say definitively which one but 305th or 306th RCC appear the more likely. Regards Steve I've been off line for a few days and wasn't able to thank you, Steve, and Terry for the information you provided above. I appreciate it. I'm still trying to decipher much of my Grandfather's data but can add some information here and hopefully not cause more confusion with the numbering question. His records show: He was certified as a skilled Hammerman at the Ordinance College Woolwich on January 13, 1917. RE I.W.Transport Transferred Gunner January 20, 1917 Sandwich under A C I 1744 (* or 1733 shown another image?) para 7 IWT Posted Sapper January 21, 1917. His RE number at that time was 233069. Sometime late (I haven't figured out when) he was assigned WR/508393. This would indicate the numbers being assigned in the IWT in the time frame you mention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 30 June , 2009 Share Posted 30 June , 2009 M2 prefix ... electrician Driver, mechanical transport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjec Posted 30 June , 2009 Author Share Posted 30 June , 2009 Thanks Chris. Found his records on line, confirms he was a lorry driver with various Siege Battery Ammunition Columns (S.B.A.C). Regards, Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave ricketts Posted 1 July , 2009 Share Posted 1 July , 2009 I wonder if it might be worth it to try to start a database of regimental numbers with the WR prefix to try to establish a definitive breakdown of which sections of the Royal Engineers were given which WR number. I will be happy to share my information on the Quarrying Companies, although I would like to wait until the final batch of Ancestry burnt records have been released and I have digested the data. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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