Hazeley Down Camp Winchester

[blandford dave]

I am to trying to research the history of Hazeley Down Camp, from its inception , war time use with Regiments etc that were stationed there, to its closure and "final days " During the late Fifties early sixties i lived as a child in Twyford and very often played in and around the vicinty of the fields where the camp once stood . It came as a surprise in later life to discover , by accident , just how big and important the Camp had been and the stories of the men that had been stationed there .Have just been to the Hampshire Records office where they had a few items of interest most importantly the original layout / builders drawing .Wow was it a bigger place than i thought ,up to 6000+ men and 1700+ horses using up 95000 gallons of water a day for example . So I have outline idea of size and some regiments ie London Rifle s , Canadian , Welsh and possibly Tank corp at the end but trying to "flesh out "is now becoming more difficult as info is drying up or I dont know where to look .What started as mild interest and thinking was "only a few huts with a few hundred sodiers " has become something much much more absorbing . If any body has already covered this subject or has info to add I would be really grateful to hear from them.

I am also intrigued by the fact that the Memorial /Wayside cross that is erected there to the London Regts was put up in 1916 ,which made the pictures of the dedication service even more poignant as many of the particpants would not survive the war themselves .

Postscript : have just learnt that their were Portugese personnel stationed there in the later years . Dont know at present if they were troops or forestry labourers . If anybody has more info I would be grateful . Cheeky cockneys, Canadas finest ,Lyrical Welshmen and now Swarthy Portugese , the young ladies of the surrounding villages must have had an enjoyable time ! Now there is an avenue of research waiting to be explored , 6000 +young men dumped in the middle of the Hampshire countryside .What impact did these camps have on the locality and population ?

[River97]

Dave,

Welcome to the forum.

From what info I have gathered, the memorial cross was erected in memory of the third line Battalions of the 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th and 20th Battalions of the London Regiment. While some of the drafts would have deployed to where the other London Regt Battalions were, these units never went overseas.

There is a hell of a lot of info on the camp on Google. Give it a crack.

Cheers Andy.

[Mike_H]

Dave

I have a pamphlet re the Augut 1916 Memorial Service at Hazeley Down. Too much to post as an attachment but if you are interested and PM me with address I can copy and either send disc or hard copy.

Mike

[blandford dave]

Dave

I have a pamphlet re the Augut 1916 Memorial Service at Hazeley Down. Too much to post as an attachment but if you are interested and PM me with address I can copy and either send disc or hard copy.

Mike

hi Mike , now i am seriously jealous as you have a copy of the book that has taken me two years to get a sight of !! Saw a copy in Winchester archives last week but would love a copy of my own ,and a copy of the " propaganda poem" postcard that exists that "slags" the camp and its location off !! Their is also a book out there somewhere called " Memories of Hazeley camp " published in 1919. Would like a copy of your Memorial issue on disc if that is possible ? As still very new to this biz not sure how to send you PM with address details via this site so will post my telephone number 01202 470114

thanks Dave

[blandford dave]

Dave,

Welcome to the forum.

From what info I have gathered, the memorial cross was erected in memory of the third line Battalions of the 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th and 20th Battalions of the London Regiment. While some of the drafts would have deployed to where the other London Regt Battalions were, these units never went overseas.

There is a hell of a lot of info on the camp on Google. Give it a crack.

Cheers Andy.

Hi Andy ,

Thanks for the reply re the Memorial Cross . I went back and took photos last year on a nostalgia trip to Twyford and the Cross appears to have been cleaned recently . What is most surprising is that the Cross, in the fifties and later , wasnt visible from the road as it is some way up a dirt track but is now (just !) Still intrigued as to why the Cross was erected so early in the War .

thanks Dave

[barkalotloudly]

hi Mike , now i am seriously jealous as you have a copy of the book that has taken me two years to get a sight of !! Saw a copy in Winchester archives last week but would love a copy of my own ,and a copy of the " propaganda poem" postcard that exists that "slags" the camp and its location off !! Their is also a book out there somewhere called " Memories of Hazeley camp " published in 1919. Would like a copy of your Memorial issue on disc if that is possible ? As still very new to this biz not sure how to send you PM with address details via this site so will post my telephone number 01202 470114

thanks Dave

i think you will find "Turner Donovan" have a copy of this book for sale

regards john

[DDP1955]

If any body has already covered this subject or has info to add I would be really grateful to hear from them.

I have a bit of hard evidence of somebody who was definately at the camp, but it's a bit of an odd story so bear with me

I have a Soldiers Testament whith an inscription on the front page:

'' Rfm J R C Holmes 5361, B Company, Queens Westminster Riffles, Hut 17, A lines, Hazeley Camp, Winchester''

also on the same page .....

Mr JRC Holmes, 25 Trelawney Road, Hackney, London (this address fits John Holmes in the 1901 census)

On the back page

'' Miss Parks, Soldiers Home, Winchester''

This is fairly conclusive that the Westminster Rifles were there

JRC Holmes is unrelated to me and I have no knowledge of him, apart from I have custody of the testament

This testament was found in my grandfathers home after his death, he wasnt serving in the war, but his brother was!

His brother was Freddie Desmond, 1st Battalion, City of London Regiment - this regiment sailed from Southampton in 1915, so may well have been stationed at Hazeley Camp at the same time as the Westminster Rifles .....

Both of these lads FRC Holmes and my uncle were Londoners, so may have struck up a friendship

John Holmes survived although wounded, my great uncle was KIA on the Somme

Confused yet, so was I until I started to apply a little logic

Dianne

[Kate Wills]

Dianne,

I can confirm the QWRs were using Hazeley Down as their depot in summer 1916. Several concerts took place involving men from the unit.

This is a postcard from my collection, inscribed Hazeley Down 1916 on the reverse.

Mike H, could I beg a copy of your pamphlet please, as it would seem to be connected with the photo.

[Mike_H]

Dave,

My brain wasn't engaged when we spoke ths afternoon, the London Regt casualties (2, both 1916) are buried at Twyford, not Shawford as I said.

Kate,

Can do - see my PM

Yours

Mike

[DDP1955]

Dianne,

I can confirm the QWRs were using Hazeley Down as their depot in summer 1916. Several concerts took place involving men from the unit.

This is a postcard from my collection, inscribed Hazeley Down 1916 on the reverse.

Mike H, could I beg a copy of your pamphlet please, as it would seem to be connected with the photo.

Hi Kate

I've seen reference to concert parties taking place during WW1, now I can see the evidence. Its nice to know them men experienced the lighter side of life as well as the horror of war. It must prove to be an interesting research area for you

Do you happen to know if the 1/1st Londons, 2/6th Londons or 8th Londons were at Hazeley Down at the relevent time. I have relatives in all these battalions. I believe the 1st Londons will already have been in France by Summer 1916 and the 6th Londons were on home duties elsewhere, but you never know.

I've been trying to marry up John Holmes with one of my relatives for the last year, without much success. He must have met one of them somewhere ...

Dianne

[blandford dave]

Dianne,

I can confirm the QWRs were using Hazeley Down as their depot in summer 1916. Several concerts took place involving men from the unit.

This is a postcard from my collection, inscribed Hazeley Down 1916 on the reverse.

Mike H, could I beg a copy of your pamphlet please, as it would seem to be connected with the photo.

Hi Kate , just to let you know that i have seen reference to a planning application for a portable cinema to be erected on the camp "for the entertainment of the troops " I will forward more details as soon as I get them . I dont know how many of you have been to the site of the camp but it is very isolated up on the Downs above Winchester . Their is also an article on the Owslebury Parish council website re the troops in the village pubs with singalongs .

Dave

[Moonraker]

..

On the back page

'' Miss Parks, Soldiers Home, Winchester''...

Dianne

Though outside my own area of interest, I'm pleased to see this thread as I know the area east of Winchester quite well and it's good to see all this information being posted. I have references to some units based there using the Salisbury Plain ranges for rifle practice because the facilities locally were so much in demand. One such unit was the 15th Royal Welsh Fusiliers, one of whose members was David Jones, the artist and writer. The 15th and other elements of the 38th (Welsh) Division, trained near Winchester but in autumn 1915 used the Salisbury Plain ranges to become used to their new Short Magazine Lee Enfield rifles.

The Miss Parks reference is actually to "Miss Perks' Soldiers' Home", which provided recreational facilities to soldiers; there were actually two Miss Perks, presumably sisters, and they had a similar well-known home at Bulford Camp in the early 20th century; contemporary postcards of its interior and exterior are quite common.

William Luff, Soldiers of the King - A Record of God's Work, (S W Partridge & Co, London 1903) describes the work of the Misses L and E Perks at their Soldiers' Home in Winchester and at Bulford Camp. They opened a home in Winchester's Hyde Close in 1877, and a "Welcome" home in the High Street in 1899, Luff describes them as "two ladies who for years have devoted strength, time, talents and means to the furtherance of gospel meetings, bible reading and meeting for prayer and praise, caring for sick and wounded, sending parcels abroad and general correspondence with men everywhere".

I do not know whether the Misses Perks established any facilities at the camps to the east of Winchester. At least some of the camps were used by American troops later in the Great War.

Moonraker

[blandford dave]

hi Mike , now i am seriously jealous as you have a copy of the book that has taken me two years to get a sight of !! Saw a copy in Winchester archives last week but would love a copy of my own ,and a copy of the " propaganda poem" postcard that exists that "slags" the camp and its location off !! Their is also a book out there somewhere called " Memories of Hazeley camp " published in 1919. Would like a copy of your Memorial issue on disc if that is possible ? As still very new to this biz not sure how to send you PM with address details via this site so will post my telephone number 01202 470114

thanks Dave

Hi Mike

many many thanks ,disc arrived this morning . When I was in Winchester Archives I didnt get chance to read their copy . so having read yours wow does some of the prose really hit the emotions ! Try "One thinks in years to come of the many pilgramages which may be made to this spot, how many fathers and mothers.........!" Very poignant in view of your newspaper cutting re the re discovery of the Cross ! quite how a 30 ft high Portland Stone cross came to disappear from view for so long is odd ! Cutting helps explain at last why the cross is situated where it is , do you have a date for the cutting ? I have also tracked down a poem written about the camp and its environs by a Nicholas Herbert Todd who was stationed there briefly with the Westminster Rifles , beautiful poem describing the Downs and flowers etc written in August 1916 with the inevitable KIA Bapaume France October 1916 !

I am starting to think that Hazeley is " coming back to life "so to speak , and telling its tale at last . Once again many thanks for the call and disc .

Dave

[blandford dave]

Though outside my own area of interest, I'm pleased to see this thread as I know the area east of Winchester quite well and it's good to see all this information being posted. I have references to some units based there using the Salisbury Plain ranges for rifle practice because the facilities locally were so much in demand. One such unit was the 15th Royal Welsh Fusiliers, one of whose members was David Jones, the artist and writer. The 15th and other elements of the 38th (Welsh) Division, trained near Winchester but in autumn 1915 used the Salisbury Plain ranges to become used to their new Short Magazine Lee Enfield rifles.

The Miss Parks reference is actually to "Miss Perks' Soldiers' Home", which provided recreational facilities to soldiers; there were actually two Miss Perks, presumably sisters, and they had a similar well-known home at Bulford Camp in the early 20th century; contemporary postcards of its interior and exterior are quite common.

William Luff, Soldiers of the King - A Record of God's Work, (S W Partridge & Co, London 1903) describes the work of the Misses L and E Perks at their Soldiers' Home in Winchester and at Bulford Camp. They opened a home in Winchester's Hyde Close in 1877, and a "Welcome" home in the High Street in 1899, Luff describes them as "two ladies who for years have devoted strength, time, talents and means to the furtherance of gospel meetings, bible reading and meeting for prayer and praise, caring for sick and wounded, sending parcels abroad and general correspondence with men everywhere".

I do not know whether the Misses Perks established any facilities at the camps to the east of Winchester. At least some of the camps were used by American troops later in the Great War.

Moonraker

Hi thanks for the info re the Misses Perks and i will research them when I next go up to Winchester.

Dave

[Mike_H]

Dave

Glad you recieived it OK. Sorry no date for the cutting, whoever put it in the back of the booklet didn't mark it and there were no date items on the back, but I guess the references to "over 60 years ago" put it in the late 1970s - whichever year November 9th fell on a Sunday from the mention of Remembrance Sunday in the text.

Mike

[Mike_H]

A quick Google shows me Sunday 9th November 1980.

Mike

[DDP1955]

Hi Dave

Any chance you could post the poem by Nicholas herbert Todd

I think it will add more colour to a camp that is now starting to come to life, thanks to your research and persistence

I'm pretty sure at least one member of my family was stationed at Hazeley, just cant work out which one yet

Dianne

[Sidearm]

If it's any help, I have a reference that the tank presented to Winchester on 7 May 1919 came from 24th Tank Corps Cadet Battalion stationed at Hazeley Camp. Try this link:

 

Gwyn

[blandford dave]

Hi Dave

Any chance you could post the poem by Nicholas herbert Todd

I think it will add more colour to a camp that is now starting to come to life, thanks to your research and persistence

I'm pretty sure at least one member of my family was stationed at Hazeley, just cant work out which one yet

Dianne

Hi Dianne, would be quicker if you Google Nicholas Herbert Todd from Occold . His story came to light via a local historian to his village who, like all of us I suspect , read the story and got "drawn in " . their are three poems on the site relating to the Camp . If you find the right poem , Winton is the local name for Winchester and the rest of the references are fairly self explantory. Only reason that I cant post direct to you is I am still at the one finger typing and "what happens if I put the little pointer thingie there " stage of techno stuff ! ! Try reading the Memorial issue as a real " throat grabber " , the Chaplain wrote in a very modern style .

Dave

[blandford dave]

If it's any help, I have a reference that the tank presented to Winchester on 7 May 1919 came from 24th Tank Corps Cadet Battalion stationed at Hazeley Camp. Try this link:

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...p;#entry1012007

Gwyn

Hi Gwynn

thanks for the post ,I have got a copy of the news article of the tank presentation but your post has helped to uncover the fact that their are photos in the Archives at Winchester !! . Having moved from Twyford in the early sixties to Hyde in Winchester , on the doorstep of North Walls Rec ,their was certainly no tank in situ then, so it would of gone, preWorld War 2 , to be melted down to make a Spitfire !!

thanks Dave

[Kate Wills]

Hi Kate

I've seen reference to concert parties taking place during WW1, now I can see the evidence. Its nice to know them men experienced the lighter side of life as well as the horror of war. It must prove to be an interesting research area for you

Do you happen to know if the 1/1st Londons, 2/6th Londons or 8th Londons were at Hazeley Down at the relevent time.

Dianne

Dianne,

My info comes from a 20th Londons magazine The Invicta Gazette, which naturally concentrates on them, so sorry I can't help you there. Charles Messenger has written a book on the 8th Londons, so maybe he can help answer their whereabouts.

Can you tell anything about the references to concert parties you mention? I haven't come across concert parties for these battalions, which isn't to say they didn't have one, but they would probably have seen their respective divisional concert parties, and any that played at camps at home (as at Hazeley Down) or nearby while on active service abroad.

_____________

Mike H

Many thanks for the CD rom of the memorial booklet.

[blandford dave]

Dianne, ... Can you tell anything about the references to concert parties you mention? I haven't come across concert parties for these battalions,

hi , dont know if you are aware but they have a copy of a programme of one of the concert parties at Hazeley Down ,in the records office in Winchester . Somewhere i have the reference number if you are interested.

Dave

[blandford dave]

Dianne,

I can confirm the QWRs were using Hazeley Down as their depot in summer 1916. Several concerts took place involving men from the unit.

This is a postcard from my collection, inscribed Hazeley Down 1916 on the reverse.

Mike H, could I beg a copy of your pamphlet please, as it would seem to be connected with the photo.

Hi Kate , would it be possible to have a photocopy of the postcard (all expenses re imbursed ) ? It will help me work out the locations of key spots when i go back up to the Camp in the next few weeks .Dont know if you have seen my post re concert party programme as I think it is on the wrong "page".Have you read memorial issue yet ?

Dave

[Kate Wills]

Dave,

I have only skim read it from cover to cover so far, but it was very kind of Mike to organise the CD.

Regarding the postcard, do you need a copy at higher resolution than the copy above? I'll pm you about getting a large print off to you.

I would be very interested to have the reference number of the concert programme at Winchester.

I hitched a lift to Winchester on New Years Day, with Martin and a friend. Martin and friend are bus enthusiasts, and there was some big rally going on. "Goody!" thought I. "I'll opt out of that and immerse myself in the five military museums" - all of which were closed.

Pity none of them thought to note the closure dates on their websites.

[blandford dave]

Dave,

I have only skim read it from cover to cover so far, but it was very kind of Mike to organise the CD.

Regarding the postcard, do you need a copy at higher resolution than the copy above? I'll pm you about getting a large print off to you.

I would be very interested to have the reference number of the concert programme at Winchester.

I hitched a lift to Winchester on New Years Day, with Martin and a friend. Martin and friend are bus enthusiasts, and there was some big rally going on. "Goody!" thought I. "I'll opt out of that and immerse myself in the five military museums" - which were all closed.

Hi Kate, standard size postcard would be fine ,its the background that I am after ,trees n stuff to locate building s etc . Ref number for the concert prog. Hants Record office Winchester no 65M90W/148 programme of a concert party during First World War c 1914 1918, and for my next trick ......it was the King Aelfred Bus Societys New Years Day Rally ......! How do I know ? cos my best mate was a member until I teased him and showed him the far more prosaic delights of Military History !

Dave

PS how do I retrieve the PM thingie had this prob with Mike-H and in the end we resorted to good old fashioned telephone .