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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Loos Tower Bridge


unitedsound

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Can someone please pinpoint for me the precise location of so called Tower Bridge on the battlefield.

Was it close to the twin crassiers?

TIA

David

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Immediately overlooking the village IIRC next to the Loos Crassier.

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The present 'twin crassiers' are not in exactly the same positions as the ones at the time of the battle and they are much higher as well. Looking from the battlefield. there can be seen a levelled off spoil heap in front of the twins. This is in the situation of the originals and of the same height. All of that information I owe to our Pal, Gilles who looks after the museum in Loos.

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Many thanks for replies.

In the current google earth image there appears to be a flattish mound in front of the twin crassiers.

post-34757-1234881341.jpg

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The whole area is changed beyond recognition since 1915. The crassiers were honeycombed with dugouts and tunnels. The towers were demolished by German artillery. Although it is difficult to orient myself, I believe the flat rectangular area adjoining the present crassiers was where Jules said was the original. The crescent shaped area to the right does not ring a bell so it is just possible that is where we were standing. The town of Loos was destroyed during the war and rebuilt after it. There is no longer any mining in the area and so I believe that just as in the former coalfields of the UK, there will be tremendous differences in the town with new buildings, roads, airport etc.

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Tower Bridge was quite close to where the current Loos British cemetery is now, the Loos crassier was where the waste land towards the village now is.

Cheers, Michelle

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Using the "Linesman package" just to show how things have changed, I've marked the same co-ordinates on a map from Linesman and one on an aerial shot from google. I must be honest... ..not what I expected. The same co-ordinate marked with the little red flag on the 1915 Loos map

regards, Tom

post-5284-1234890801.jpg

post-5284-1234891000.jpg

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Using the same for the tower (I am presuming these are marked as Pylons on the map from "Linesman")

post-5284-1234893196.jpg

Now the aerial view from Google....

post-5284-1234893301.jpg

regards

Tom

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As I understand it, " Tower Bridge" was the winding gear for a pair of shafts. I would expect it to be just about where it shows on the map but am surprised to see it on google. I suspect that the map ref is correct topographically but the lat & long is out. That is also borne out by the fact that the British had to do their own surveying for accurate artillery fire.

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Using the roads from the 1915 map and todays from the aerial, the co-ordinates appear to be about 300 metres to far to the south in the trenchmap screenshot.

I know the modern co-ordinates in Google will be far more accurate than the ones done in 1915 under different circumstances, but it does give one an idea of the location of the pylons.

regards

Tom

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Are these the two circular markers you are refering to Gilles?

regards

Tom

post-5284-1234895819.jpg

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See also this thread; I removed the photos I posted after the Mods request to free up space

 

Michelle

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Many thanks for that Michelle, so we have permanent markers to show the position of the Tower. This proves that the co-ordinates are slightly out by about 300m using the map made up in 1915...no matter a good excercise in referencing one landmark (double crassier) with another(Tower) using trench maps and modern aerial views

Regards

Tom

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Looking at the Linesman map it can be clearly seen that the front of the tower is actually facing the centre of the battlefield and sitting behind the village of Loos.

This is also true because Hill 70 was at 11 o'clock behind the tower from an image in the "panoramas" book.

The circular markers in the google image look too "narrow" to be from the original structure and my guess is that the google coordinates for the tower are spot on - approximately 160 metres away from the post war structure.

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Using the roads from the 1915 map and todays from the aerial, the co-ordinates appear to be about 300 metres to far to the south in the trenchmap screenshot.

I know the modern co-ordinates in Google will be far more accurate than the ones done in 1915 under different circumstances, but it does give one an idea of the location of the pylons.

regards

Tom

Tom

BEWARE, we warn on our web site that the 1915 produced maps are very poorly printed and are very innacurate. If you are trying to locate places then and now, always refer to the same features on the latest map on which you can find it. This is exactly a case in point.

Historically this innacuracy is very important, and that is why we left the 'warts and all' in LinesMan. Not wanting to tamper with history.

bear in mind that this is the same sheet, with the same grid.

I will post a couple of comparisons.

You will see that on the 1918 map, the tower is shown in a completely different place with regard to the grid, and this has been entirely corrected by the army surveyors on the later maps.

This new co ordinate compared with the 1915 map is in exactly the correct place with regard to the IGN Aerial photo., and matches up with the circular bases as marked in an earlier post.

The 1915 map is quite simply wrong, and should not be used for this kind of analysis.

All the best

Guy

1918 map:

post-12226-1234906931.jpg

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Now the same points on the modern IGN Aerial Photo.

This shows that the 1918 trench map is bang on, as per the circular bases shown in an earlier post.

And the same overlaid points on the 1915 map you posted:

Guy

post-12226-1234907139.jpg

post-12226-1234907647.jpg

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Guy, I did say in one of the earlier posts on this thread, that the maps produced in 1915 were done under different cicumstances which explained the apparent inaccuracies.

regards

Tom

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