unitedsound Posted 17 February , 2009 Share Posted 17 February , 2009 Can someone please pinpoint for me the precise location of so called Tower Bridge on the battlefield. Was it close to the twin crassiers? TIA David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 17 February , 2009 Share Posted 17 February , 2009 Immediately overlooking the village IIRC next to the Loos Crassier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Robertson Posted 17 February , 2009 Share Posted 17 February , 2009 Yes, between the north end of the Loos Crassier and the village as squirrel says. regards Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 17 February , 2009 Share Posted 17 February , 2009 The present 'twin crassiers' are not in exactly the same positions as the ones at the time of the battle and they are much higher as well. Looking from the battlefield. there can be seen a levelled off spoil heap in front of the twins. This is in the situation of the originals and of the same height. All of that information I owe to our Pal, Gilles who looks after the museum in Loos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unitedsound Posted 17 February , 2009 Author Share Posted 17 February , 2009 Many thanks for replies. In the current google earth image there appears to be a flattish mound in front of the twin crassiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unitedsound Posted 17 February , 2009 Author Share Posted 17 February , 2009 Found this image of the tower on Paul Reed's website. Perhaps the tower sat in the grassland on the right of the flat crassier? http://battlefields1418.50megs.com/towerbridge01.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 17 February , 2009 Share Posted 17 February , 2009 The whole area is changed beyond recognition since 1915. The crassiers were honeycombed with dugouts and tunnels. The towers were demolished by German artillery. Although it is difficult to orient myself, I believe the flat rectangular area adjoining the present crassiers was where Jules said was the original. The crescent shaped area to the right does not ring a bell so it is just possible that is where we were standing. The town of Loos was destroyed during the war and rebuilt after it. There is no longer any mining in the area and so I believe that just as in the former coalfields of the UK, there will be tremendous differences in the town with new buildings, roads, airport etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 17 February , 2009 Share Posted 17 February , 2009 I think it's possible to drive up the biggest slag heap though I've not tried it, very little elevation otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 17 February , 2009 Admin Share Posted 17 February , 2009 Tower Bridge was quite close to where the current Loos British cemetery is now, the Loos crassier was where the waste land towards the village now is. Cheers, Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towisuk Posted 17 February , 2009 Share Posted 17 February , 2009 Using the "Linesman package" just to show how things have changed, I've marked the same co-ordinates on a map from Linesman and one on an aerial shot from google. I must be honest... ..not what I expected. The same co-ordinate marked with the little red flag on the 1915 Loos map regards, Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towisuk Posted 17 February , 2009 Share Posted 17 February , 2009 Using the same for the tower (I am presuming these are marked as Pylons on the map from "Linesman") Now the aerial view from Google.... regards Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 17 February , 2009 Share Posted 17 February , 2009 As I understand it, " Tower Bridge" was the winding gear for a pair of shafts. I would expect it to be just about where it shows on the map but am surprised to see it on google. I suspect that the map ref is correct topographically but the lat & long is out. That is also borne out by the fact that the British had to do their own surveying for accurate artillery fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towisuk Posted 17 February , 2009 Share Posted 17 February , 2009 Using the roads from the 1915 map and todays from the aerial, the co-ordinates appear to be about 300 metres to far to the south in the trenchmap screenshot. I know the modern co-ordinates in Google will be far more accurate than the ones done in 1915 under different circumstances, but it does give one an idea of the location of the pylons. regards Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilles Posted 17 February , 2009 Share Posted 17 February , 2009 Hello http://pagesperso-orange.fr/asso.sltdlgg/ with google possible to see "two big circle" tower bridge ( near salle Varet and College Cassin) gilles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towisuk Posted 17 February , 2009 Share Posted 17 February , 2009 Are these the two circular markers you are refering to Gilles? regards Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 17 February , 2009 Admin Share Posted 17 February , 2009 See also this thread; I removed the photos I posted after the Mods request to free up space Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towisuk Posted 17 February , 2009 Share Posted 17 February , 2009 Many thanks for that Michelle, so we have permanent markers to show the position of the Tower. This proves that the co-ordinates are slightly out by about 300m using the map made up in 1915...no matter a good excercise in referencing one landmark (double crassier) with another(Tower) using trench maps and modern aerial views Regards Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unitedsound Posted 17 February , 2009 Author Share Posted 17 February , 2009 Looking at the Linesman map it can be clearly seen that the front of the tower is actually facing the centre of the battlefield and sitting behind the village of Loos. This is also true because Hill 70 was at 11 o'clock behind the tower from an image in the "panoramas" book. The circular markers in the google image look too "narrow" to be from the original structure and my guess is that the google coordinates for the tower are spot on - approximately 160 metres away from the post war structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithmaps Posted 17 February , 2009 Share Posted 17 February , 2009 Using the roads from the 1915 map and todays from the aerial, the co-ordinates appear to be about 300 metres to far to the south in the trenchmap screenshot. I know the modern co-ordinates in Google will be far more accurate than the ones done in 1915 under different circumstances, but it does give one an idea of the location of the pylons. regards Tom Tom BEWARE, we warn on our web site that the 1915 produced maps are very poorly printed and are very innacurate. If you are trying to locate places then and now, always refer to the same features on the latest map on which you can find it. This is exactly a case in point. Historically this innacuracy is very important, and that is why we left the 'warts and all' in LinesMan. Not wanting to tamper with history. bear in mind that this is the same sheet, with the same grid. I will post a couple of comparisons. You will see that on the 1918 map, the tower is shown in a completely different place with regard to the grid, and this has been entirely corrected by the army surveyors on the later maps. This new co ordinate compared with the 1915 map is in exactly the correct place with regard to the IGN Aerial photo., and matches up with the circular bases as marked in an earlier post. The 1915 map is quite simply wrong, and should not be used for this kind of analysis. All the best Guy 1918 map: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithmaps Posted 17 February , 2009 Share Posted 17 February , 2009 Now the same points on the modern IGN Aerial Photo. This shows that the 1918 trench map is bang on, as per the circular bases shown in an earlier post. And the same overlaid points on the 1915 map you posted: Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towisuk Posted 17 February , 2009 Share Posted 17 February , 2009 Guy, I did say in one of the earlier posts on this thread, that the maps produced in 1915 were done under different cicumstances which explained the apparent inaccuracies. regards Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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