Jump to content
Free downloads from TNA ×
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

700861 CSM Dachtler DCM


jaypee

Recommended Posts

Hi, first time user,

I'm looking for information on one of my wife's relative's activities during the great war his name was William Frederick Dachtler 700861.enlisted 6 Oct 1914 in the 23rd Btn London Regt.

I have obtained his discharged documents and was interested to see that he was awarded a DCM, was MiD and was taken Prisoner of War

I have an extract from the London Gazette of his bravery, which doesn't give any great details...is this Mentioned in dispatches?? from his records it was awarded 25 May 1917 poss Loos (but cant read the print) any ideas on what the regiment was involved in?

He spent 3 years 10 days in France before being taken prisoner (reported missing 30 Mar 1918) officially accepted in German hands 21 Mar 1918, I think. Having spent 266days was repat 15 Dec 1918.

He was given a statement of disability but I cannot make out the reason for this. My mother-in-law has a photograph of him in uniform which I will have to get a copy.

Any information at all on the regiments movements around these dates or any specific info on William would be great.

Thks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

His MID was Gazetted 25-5-1917

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/300...upplements/5169

His DCM on 1-1-1918

700861 C.S.M W. F. Dachtler, Lond. R (London, :S E.).

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/30450/supplements/59

with the citation on 17-4-1918

700861 C.S.M. W. F. Dachtler, Lond. R. (London, S.E.).

For conspicuous' gallantry and devotion to duty. During an engagement he reconnoitred the enemy's position under very difficult conditions, and obtained valuable information. He always showed great courage and determination at his work.

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/306...upplements/4659

The dates suggest that the DCM MAY be in relation to the battle of Cambrai. 47th Division took over positions at Bourlon Wood on the night of the 28th/29th November 1917, just prior to the major German counter-attack. I wonder if CSM Dachtler's reconnaissance would be related to this period, or perhaps at the start of the counter-attack on 30-11-1917 itself?

Steve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

William has (allegedly) 7 pages of Pension records on Ancestry. are these the "discharge documents" you refer to, or have you some physical papers?

The mentions in despatches have no surviving central database, and were usually awarded in connection with the Field-Marshall Haig's (or other campaign commanders) official despatch (a summary of events of the previous few months). The MIDs usally refer to the despatch of a couple of months previously, and that covers a period of about six months. The MIDs would therefore probably be in relation to the events of late 1916/early 1917. In William's case, this may refer to the time from September-November 1916 when the 1/23rd Londons were invlioved in the later battles of the Somme - the Battle of Flers-Courcelette (and capture of High Wood) and the Battle of Le Transloy.

The first page of the MID list says that they are in relation to Haig's despatch of 9-4-1917.

EDIT:

I've located the following Despatch which begins on the 18th November 1916, so I believe that the previous one should take us up to 17th November 1916, leaving it likely that CSM Dachtler's MID was in relation to the Somme battles.

"War Office,

19th June, 1917.

The following Despatch has been received by the Secretary of State for War from Field- Marshal Sir Douglas Haig, G.C.B., Commanding-in-Chief, British Armies in France.

GENERAL HEAD QUARTERS,

BRITISH ARMIES IN FRANCE.

31st May, 1917.

My Lord,

I have the honour to submit the following Report on the operations of the British Armies in France from the 18th November, 1916, to the commencement of our present offensive."

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/301...upplements/6129

and the previous one:

War Office,

29th December, 1916.

The following Despatch has been received by the Secretary of State for War from General Sir Douglas Haig, G.C.B., Commanding-in-

Chief, the British Forces in France: —

General Headquarters,

23rd December, 1916.

My Lord,

I have the honour to submit the following report on the operations of the Forces under my Command since the 19th May, the date of my last Despatch.

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/298...pplements/12719

Neither of which is particularly close to the date of the MIDs!! (at least not on the right side)

It would not be likely to have the MIDs before the despatch (i.e. the cart before the horse), so I would say that the MIDs including CSM Dachtler's are (delayed) MIDs relating to the December 1916 despatch.

Steve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Steve

Thanks for the info, definately something to get my teeth into, i will post my details on the london Regt database post haste. As you stated I do have the pension records from ancestry, they too are good reading.......L/Cpl to CSM in less than a year, 10 days leave for MiD, £20 and 14 days lve for the DCM then a captured PoW, life certainly wasn't easy.

Anyway thanks for help

Jon

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jon,

Thanks for sharing this with us.

Steve has done his usual excellent job of posting all the relevant Gazette entries for CSM Dachtler and he knows far more than me about the workings of the Gazetting process. I agree that the Somme in September-October 1916 is the likely site of his earning the MID.

The 1/23rd War Diary shows that notification of awards of 1 D.S.O., 2 M.C. and 14 M.Ms was received on 14th Jan 1918 at Bertincourt in connection with operations in December 1917 at Bourlon Wood. I would have thought that one of the M.Ms may have been Dachtler's DCM. On 17th January at 11:30 a.m. Major Gen. Sir F.Gorringe commanding 47th Div presented ribbons.

His capture on 23rd March 1918 was as a result of the Ludendorff Offensive (a.k.a Kaiserschlacht or Spring Offensive). Check out the war diary here. Goto East Surrey regiment and select 1/23rd.

Looking at his discharge documents I think he enlisted on 15th Oct 1914. Something in the back of my mind is telling me he was in D Company, but I'll have to check to see if that's the case when I get to look at my research.

Look forward to seeing a picture of him.

Do you know if the family still has his medal group or where he may have been held captive in Germany?

Best regards,

Matthew

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Matthew,

The diaries were fascinating, it gives you a real insight of the advances and retreats the lads had to suffer.

In answer to your question, I have no idea where the medal group would be as it was my mother-in-law's Uncle so I presume it was passed down on their side, but I will enquire. Still awaiting the photo.

I am still a little confused over the MiD and DCM award. You stated it is likely he earned his MiD in Sep-Oct 1916, yet on his Military History Sheet (ancestry discharge docs) it states "Mentioned in Despatches(Lan Gay ? 25.5.17)"

On his Statement of services Army Form B200 there is a snippet of info saying:

"Credited with £20 in respect of DCM Bounty

Arothy? Lan Gary? d 1/1/18

(P..p.....t.is M..io?)" this was illegible, maybe you can make it out.

On his casulty Form it says he was awarded DCM 11.1.18

Confusing!! does this sound familiar, as a serving member of the armed forces I certainly know how inserts in docs can be a little off the mark?!

rgds

Jon

Thanks for sharing this with us.

Steve has done his usual excellent job of posting all the relevant Gazette entries for CSM Dachtler and he knows far more than me about the workings of the Gazetting process. I agree that the Somme in September-October 1916 is the likely site of his earning the MID.

The 1/23rd War Diary shows that notification of awards of 1 D.S.O., 2 M.C. and 14 M.Ms was received on 14th Jan 1918 at Bertincourt in connection with operations in December 1917 at Bourlon Wood. I would have thought that one of the M.Ms may have been Dachtler's DCM. On 17th January at 11:30 a.m. Major Gen. Sir F.Gorringe commanding 47th Div presented ribbons.

His capture on 23rd March 1918 was as a result of the Ludendorff Offensive (a.k.a Kaiserschlacht or Spring Offensive). Check out the war diary here. Goto East Surrey regiment and select 1/23rd.

Looking at his discharge documents I think he enlisted on 15th Oct 1914. Something in the back of my mind is telling me he was in D Company, but I'll have to check to see if that's the case when I get to look at my research.

Look forward to seeing a picture of him.

Do you know if the family still has his medal group or where he may have been held captive in Germany?

Best regards,

Matthew

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The text says (i think) Credited with £20 in respect of DCM Bounty, Authy. Lon. Gaz. d 1/1/18 (Paymaster Service) {Authority of London Gazette dated 1st January 1918}

The Mention in Despatches is also referring to the official announcement in the London Gazette (known as promulgation) again using the date of the particular issue of the Gazette in which it appeared.

I think the "11" of the London Gazette date on the Casualty Form is actually a double stroke on the "1", possibly where the clerks fountain pen didn't have enough ink in it. We know for a fact that the London Gazette date is the 1st January 1918, so we can ignore the discrepancy in my opinion.

Steve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Matthew,

I have, as promised the 2 pictures of William not sure where they are set.

I have tried to upload them but they were too large.

Any ideas.

Jon

Thanks for sharing this with us.

Steve has done his usual excellent job of posting all the relevant Gazette entries for CSM Dachtler and he knows far more than me about the workings of the Gazetting process. I agree that the Somme in September-October 1916 is the likely site of his earning the MID.

The 1/23rd War Diary shows that notification of awards of 1 D.S.O., 2 M.C. and 14 M.Ms was received on 14th Jan 1918 at Bertincourt in connection with operations in December 1917 at Bourlon Wood. I would have thought that one of the M.Ms may have been Dachtler's DCM. On 17th January at 11:30 a.m. Major Gen. Sir F.Gorringe commanding 47th Div presented ribbons.

His capture on 23rd March 1918 was as a result of the Ludendorff Offensive (a.k.a Kaiserschlacht or Spring Offensive). Check out the war diary here. Goto East Surrey regiment and select 1/23rd.

Looking at his discharge documents I think he enlisted on 15th Oct 1914. Something in the back of my mind is telling me he was in D Company, but I'll have to check to see if that's the case when I get to look at my research.

Look forward to seeing a picture of him.

Do you know if the family still has his medal group or where he may have been held captive in Germany?

Best regards,

Matthew

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maxium size is 100kb for each post. You may need to make a copy and resize the copy down below the limit.

Steve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jon,

I'll pm you my email address and see if I can do anything with them.

Best regards,

Matthew

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jon has sent me two photos of CSM Dachtler so I'll see if I can post them here.

post-2343-1233935952.jpg

post-2343-1233936070.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...