Souvenir small chevrons

[Rockdoc]

I found these with my Grandfather's notebooks relating to his time in Salonika with 99 AA Section RGA. They're unused, 60mm from side to side and I don't think they're British. He seems to have had some kind of relationship with his French counterparts so they may have come from there. Anyone any ideas what they are and what they represented?

Keith

[Rockdoc]

Apologies for the invisible image and the empty second post. The board froze on me while the message was being uploaded.

Keith

[mark holden]

Hello Keith,

They are British overseas service chevrons, the Red one indicates he was in France in 1914 the three blue for each year thereafter 1915/16/17.

Hope this helps, Happy New Year

Mark

Apologies for the invisible image and the empty second post. The board froze on me while the message was being uploaded.

Keith

[Pierre]

I agree with Mark.

Just for information, French had similar Chevrons:

The orange for a policeman and the blue for others regiments.

They were wearing in other sense, /\

On left arm, for during service, one for one year and after, one for each more six month (so the blue can be two years), only for period in front army.

On right arm, one for each war injury.

It was an obligation to wear them.

Pierre

[Rockdoc]

Thanks and merçi, gentlemen. The knowledge of the board members never fails to astonish me. I knew that there were inverted chevrons worn on the cuffs of, at least, formal dress uniforms for good conduct, long service and so on and I have a photo of him wearing one but I had no idea that the concept continued into WW1. How were they worn?

The three, blue chevrons are in one piece of cloth, suggesting they were issued quite late in the War - mid-1918 I'd guess. I suppose not getting one for his 1918 service didn't bother him once he was back home. Like most ex-servicemen, I would think he was more concerned with getting a job, finding somewhere to live and looking after his wife.

Happy New Year!

Keith

[Rockdoc]

Slightly off-topic, my father-in-law - in the Norfolks in WW2 - used to watch Dad's Army and loved the attention to detail that had been taken with the uniforms and equipment. I was looking at Blackadder Goes Forth a couple of days ago and spotted a set of these chevrons on Rowan Atkinson's sleeve. They're tiny and not all that obvious but they're there.

Keith

[Joe Sweeney]

Keith,

Here are the rules for aweard of the Overseas Stripes:

Instituted by AO 4 of Jan 1918.

Chevrons were awarded for time served overseas and not year served. The red was awarded if point of service started before 31 Dec 1914, the next award was an aggregate of 12 months later.

AO 4 1918 is paraphrased below:

The date of award of the first Chevron was that on which the individual left the UK, or in the case of those serving abroad at the outbreak of war, 5 August 1914. For Overseas troops, the first chevron was awarded on the date of leaving their own country or were employed on local operations. Further Chevrons were awarded for each succesive aggregate period of 12 months. One month of leave was permitted in calculation. If first point of service was before 31 Dec 1914 a red chevron was awarded after 1 Jan 1915 all were blue.

There are more rules and ammendments with the army orders assoctiated with these chevron's etc. At first PoW time was not counted and this was ammended.

A man who had a red and two blue chevrons, shows that he had 24 months of service overseas starting in 1914. This is calculated by time served overseas and not the year excepting service before 31 December 1914 earned the man a red chevron for his first. The award of the blue chevron came after an aggregate of twelve qualifying months later and not just because 1915 was the next calendar year. A man with one red and 2 blue chevrons could very well have only been authorized these chevrons even though he served for 1914, 1915, 1916, 1917 and 1918 in France but his accumulated time was only 24 months.

Joe Sweeney

[Rockdoc]

Thanks for the clarification, Joe. I think you've explained why he only got three blue stripes and not the four I expected. He was an Old Contemptible so he got his red one no problem. He remained in France until he was wounded on 12th July 1916 and ended up on Nell Lane Military Hospital in West Didsbury, Manchester. His MIC says that he was transferred to the RGA in February 1917, after which he went out to Salonika.

I had though that he was convalescing in the meantime but the penny dropped yesterday. When he was wounded he was a corporal but when he went to Salonika he had his third stripe. I can vaguely remember him saying that he'd had to take the sergeants' exam twice and telling me a question he got wrong (all about calculating how much stuff to draw from stores to do a job). In another thread, another of the men who went with him to 99 Anti-aircraft Section had been in a reserve battery so, his records having been lost, I think the chances are he was also transferred to one and he worked on his promotion while he had the chance. That wouldn't count for his chevrons because he was in Blighty.

QED!

Keith