2nd Battalion, The Rifle Brigade

[raver]

Hi. I am researching a relative who was a rifleman in the 2nd Battalion, The Rifle Brigade. He died, in France, on the 14th March 1915 with no known grave.

Could somebody please tell me were the 2nd Battalion was on that day?

Dave26

[stiletto_33853]

Dave,

Battle of Neuve Chapelle, will have a look at their war diary for you presently.

Andy

[stiletto_33853]

Dave,

2nd RB's Diary

13th & 14th

1. Work was continued on our line. The enemy's shelling was very heavy.

2. The total casualties from 10th to 14th were 12 officers and 365 other ranks killed and wounded. A draft of 1 officer & 95 other ranks arrived.

If you need to know a little more of the battle with regard to the 2nd RB's let me know.

Andy

Do you have a name of the relative you are researching???

[raver]

Dave,

2nd RB's Diary

13th & 14th

1. Work was continued on our line. The enemy's shelling was very heavy.

2. The total casualties from 10th to 14th were 12 officers and 365 other ranks killed and wounded. A draft of 1 officer & 95 other ranks arrived.

If you need to know a little more of the battle with regard to the 2nd RB's let me know.

Andy

Do you have a name of the relative you are researching???

[raver]

Hi Andy. Thanks very much for your prompt reply. Yes please, let me know a little more about the battle.

My relative was Rifleman Arthur Edward Marsh, serial no. B/677.

Dave

[stiletto_33853]

Dave,

A letter written by Lieut. Charles Pennefather of "D" Company, 2nd Rifle Brigade, wrote to Lieut. Chan Hoskyns, recently departed from the same battalion, describing the part in the part in the Battle of Neuve Chapelle and the wasteful destruction of the Rifle Brigade.

My Dear Chan,

So sorry I have not answered your letter before, but since the 10th March we have been passing through such stirring times that I have only just collected my thoughts.

Now if you behave yourself, I will give you a long description of the Battle of Neuve Chapelle, since we were the first to boost through the village.

We left our trenches at Laventie on the 3rd March and went back to billets in the neighbourhood for a week, during this week we had to practice the attack every day. During this time we collected every gun we could find in the neighbourhood, we got 360 ranging from the 13lb to the 15 inch.

On the night of the 9th the whole brigade moved up to the trenches and hid behind some parapets which had taken us a fortnight to dig.

The attack was to start at 7.30 in the morning. So at 6.30 we all had a swig of rum and at 7.30 our guns started off a most unholy bombardment the Lord ever saw, this lasted for half an hour, it killed about 100 of the Berkshires and about 10 of ours. At 8.5 the guns lifted and off boosted the Berks and the Lincolns who captured the German trenches. Then away went the R.B. and the R.I.R. to capture the village. We simply boosted through the village capturing about 200 Deutschers. Byatt, Verney, Bulkley-Johnson were shot in this part.

We then arrived at the other side of the village and joined up with the Indians on our right, and our job was finished since we had broken a gap in the line and we could have gone to Berlin at least if there had been anyone behind, but as you know our brilliant staff had two men and a boy behind and also 20,000 Cavalry which they refused to let go because they said it was too foggy, all total balls as there was no fog. Meanwhile the unfortunate 24th Brigade got held up on our left and were unable to push on, so we remained in our position for the night.

The next morning, 11th, the Deutschers had the audacity to attack us, we polished off about 600, so they did not come anymore.

However we got the order to take the German position at any cost from some bloody sh1t sitting in boulogne, so away went A & B Companies, a most bloody fire from all corners of the earth broke out, it killed 130 of "A" Coy and 90 of "B" Coy, we then decided not to go on.

Never the less I am damned if another message did not come at 4.30 to take the German position regardless of cost, this time C & D Coys. Meanwhile Brockholes, Pilcher, Gilbey, Mason and Harrison had been killed. C were to lead followed closely by D, off went C and they lost 110 men, D were just off headed by Mansell and myself when the Colonel stopped us, Mansell got one in the head there, leaving me in command of "D" Company.

The higher authorities then decided that the attack was nothing else but murder, not a bad thought after seeing most of the R.B. stretched on the floor. That finished the days fighting.

During the night we wired and dug like the devil, the next day the Deutschers started to bombard us at 6 am and continued till 4.30pm the most bloody experience the Lord ever invented, it polished off about 50 of us and hundreds of people at the back.

I took a bullet through the hat, which took the hair of my head, I shot the blighter in the head.

That night was a bloody night as there were no stretcher bearers and all the wounded got left. Bridgeman got wounded by a shell in the evening, also Barton was wounded in the head and Carle in the finger.

The next day was quieter and gradually we quitened down. We stopped for fourteen days. Now we have been taken away for a weeks rest somewhere near Sailly and we are going into the trenches which the 7th Division had.

The Canadians are in Estaires, awful drunkards. There are 2 Territorial Divisions close by too.

Rawlinson bungled the whole show. Davis was alright, Lowry Cole was very brave and nearly got blown up by a shell. Stephens is quite well, Constable is acting Adjutant. Stopford went away as A.D.C. to Robertson before the show, Grey is M.G. Officer. Harding has gone to St. Omer to go through a course (M.G.)

We have 12 new officers and 400 men. The Berks had only 7 officers left, the R.I.R. had only 4 left, the Northamptons 1 Officer and 100 men left. The Scottish Rifles had all their officers killed. We lost 520 officers and 10000 men, hell of a bloody lot.

The new trench we dug came across rows and rows of dead, those killed in October.

I met Baby out here in Estaires (he is on the staff of 7th Division).

This is all the news. Write and let me know what you are doing.

Cheer Ho, yours ever

Charles P.

Andy

[stiletto_33853]

Dave,

Overseas on the 27/12/14.

Andy

[raver]

Andy

Thanks for the date that he went to France. Just 2 days after Christmas seems to have been a bad omen, as he survived his first battle only to be killed on the 14th., presumably by a shell burst as there isn't a grave only a mention of his name, on panel 44, on the Le Touret Memorial.

Thanks also for the letter. As my relative was also in the 2nd Battalion, it gives me some idea of the hell that he had to endure.

Happy Christmas

Dave

[stiletto_33853]

Dave,

Glad that it was of use to you. If you want the war diary for this period let me know and I will send you a copy.

Andy

[raver]

Andy

Yes Please. I would be very grateful for a copy.

Dave

[stiletto_33853]

Dave,

March and April 1915 all sent to you.

Andy

[DDP1955]

Hi All

Struggling with this man, service no 213161. MIC does not give any info, other than he was latter in the 10th London Regiment, service no 448699

Any ideas on how to find his battalion in The Rifle Brigade.

His service and pension records are not on ancestry, at least I can't find them ...

Dianne

[stiletto_33853]

Dainne,

Cannot find this number in the Rifle Brigade medal rolls but the numbers around it were all from one of the Territorial battalions (19th), do you have the medal references there from the MIC??

Andy

[raver]

Dave,

March and April 1915 all sent to you.

Andy

[raver]

Andy

Thanks very much for the war diary pages. Took me a while to download, as I only have an old PC with dial up, but got there in the end.

Do you happen to know where the 2nd Bn. was during Jan and Feb 1915?

Dave

[dennisjnelson]

Dave

My great uncle was also 2nd Battalion, Rifle Brigade at the same time as your relative. He was killed on May 9th 1915 and I had posted his letters home from March and April at the following link

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...t=0&start=0

They may help a little with what the 2nd Battalion was doing around the time of Neuve Chapelle.

Dennis

[raver]

Dennis

Many thanks for sharing your letters and photos with me. Unfortunately nearly all of our family's papers were destroyed in the London Blitz of 1941 which makes researching relatives who lived before that date all the more difficult.

My Great Uncle was Rifleman Arthur Edward Marsh, number B/677, 2nd Bn, Rifle Brigade. At the moment all I know is that he went to France on 27th Dec 1914 and was killed at Neuve Chapelle on the 14th Mar 1915, probablly by a shell blast as he has no known grave. His name is on a memorial plaque at the WGC cemetery at Le Touret.

Regards

Dave

[raver]

Dennis

Many thanks for sharing your letters and photos with me. Unfortunately nearly all of our family's papers were destroyed in the London Blitz of 1941 which makes researching relatives who lived before that date all the more difficult.

My Great Uncle was Rifleman Arthur Edward Marsh, number B/677, 2nd Bn, Rifle Brigade. At the moment all I know is that he went to France on 27th Dec 1914 and was killed at Neuve Chapelle on the 14th Mar 1915, probablly by a shell blast as he has no known grave. His name is on a memorial plaque at the WGC cemetery at Le Touret.

Regards

Dave

[stiletto_33853]

Dave,

Glad that you managed to download ll the diary, must have taken sometime on dial-up.

Andy

[dennisjnelson]

Dave

Fred Peters also has no known grave, just like most of the 2nd Battalion men killed May 9th, even though his friend's letter says he was buried in a Rifle Brigade graveyard. Fred is remembered on the Ploegsteert Memorial.

I suspect the graveyard was destroyed in later fighting, either blown up or grave markers lost so the bodies couldn't be id'd. It's possible the same thing happened to your relative. In the letter dated April 13 he mentions a cemetary being destroyed at Neuve Chapelle, and bodies of men buried in Aug or Sept 1914 being blown up.

Dennis

[raver]

Dave,

Glad that you managed to download ll the diary, must have taken sometime on dial-up.

Andy

Andy

You are right. I had time to make a cup of tea while I was waiting.

Do you know were the 2nd Bn was in Jan and Feb 1915?

Dave

[raver]

Dave

Fred Peters also has no known grave, just like most of the 2nd Battalion men killed May 9th, even though his friend's letter says he was buried in a Rifle Brigade graveyard. Fred is remembered on the Ploegsteert Memorial.

I suspect the graveyard was destroyed in later fighting, either blown up or grave markers lost so the bodies couldn't be id'd. It's possible the same thing happened to your relative. In the letter dated April 13 he mentions a cemetary being destroyed at Neuve Chapelle, and bodies of men buried in Aug or Sept 1914 being blown up.

Dennis

Dennis

Thanks for the letters, haven't had time to read all of them yet. It's possible that my relative was in the Neuve Chapelle cemetery that was destroyed. Sadley we will never know.

Do you happen to know were the 2nd Bn was in Jan and Feb 1915?

Dave

[stiletto_33853]

Dave,

If you would care to send me your e-mail address again, seems to have gone missing from my files, I will send you Jan & Feb 1915 from the war diary.

Andy

[raver]

Andy

As my PC is so slow at downloading, could you just give me a rough idea were the 2nd Bn was during Jan and Feb?

Dave

[stiletto_33853]

Hi Dave,

As it's you and a fine battalion here goes:-

Jan 1st.

Rested in billets

4pm relieved Royal Berks Regt in trenches - owing to rising floods in our fire trench new breastworks were started on ground level immediatley in rear of the flooded positions of fire trench. Doubtless the enemy is having equal difficulty over the water as he makes no effort to disturb our working parties. His advanced saps appear never to be occupied nowadays and sniping is intermittent.

Rain fell most of the night.

Jan 2nd.

No movement on either side all day - towards evening the enemy om our right attempted to open conversation. They are not for fighting at present.

Work carried on all night on new breastworks - a fatigue party of 75RA worked on a new communicating trench for us - Enemy opened frequently with machine guns but did no damage. Our artillery shelled the enemy's trenches to our right front heavily.

Jan 3rd.

Quiet day except for half and hours bombardment bu our Div. artillery of the enemy's trenches and Trivelet - work continued on new breastworks and communicating trench.

Jan 4th.

More rain - relieved at 4pm by Royal Berk's Regt and marched in Div. Reserve billets at Laventie.

Jan 5th.

Rested in billets

Jan 6th.

Battalion marched by Coy's into Estaires to the Divisional baths.

Jan 7th.

Rested in billets in the morning - 4pm relieved Royal Berk's Regt in the trenches - at the end of the relief enemy shelled Fauquissart cross roads doing no damage.

Jan 8th.

1am - continued work on breastworks and new communication trenches - water rising rapidly - out effort to capture a patrol of the enemy's was foiled by the water. A number of the enemy were out at 4.30am on their parapet bailing - fire was opened on them by a machine gun and D Coy - it is thought with some effect.

2.30pm - Our 6 in Howitzers shelled Trivelet and bolted some 30 Germans who were caught by shrapnel, rifle and machine gun fire - (the heavy rain of the day cleared up towards night) - The fire trench is now so bad that it is only possible to keep one platoon per Coy in the trench by day. Heavy rain fell towards night.

Jan 9th.

1am - continued work on new communication trenches, breastworks and shelters - Enemy sniped vigourously till dawn in return for their surprise of the previous night - work was terribly slow and heavy in the sodden clay

4am - heavy rain put a stop to all work - by mid-day all communicating trenches were impassable and the water is still rising. Our artillery shelled the enemy's trenches vigourously all day at intervals, Germans replied principally on the Faquissart cross roads - Rain continued to fall and water to rise.

10pm - D Coy again surprised a party of the enemy at work on their parapet and opened fire - The Germans replied at once with rifle fire, 3 maxims and shell fire, but did no damage.