Max Poilu Posted 30 July , 2006 Share Posted 30 July , 2006 Hi Marco, Seriously, I did not really post the contemporary French drawing to illustrate my point but just as an interesting illustration! I have read of their use and seen a couple of original boxes over the years. I guess for specific use against perhaps zeppelins a handful may have been dropped but for troops in the open they were thrown out in huge numbers. A similar idea but totally different design of flechette (lazy dogs) were used in Vietnam in vast numbers. http://www.big-ordnance.com/Flechettes/Flechettes.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georg Posted 25 November , 2008 Share Posted 25 November , 2008 I am new to this forum, and have learned much from just reading the posting, thank you. I was talking to a neighbor the other day about the Great War, and he show me an aerial dart which his father had and gave him years ago. After seeing it, I have tried to learn more about these things but have not been able to learn much. I know that they were used by both sides, but I would like to learn about them. How effective were they and how many would be dropped at one time, and how long were they used. I don’t know why but they interest me. Are these ever found now days , I would think that an original one would be very hard to find , are there any reproduction in the market place ( I would like one for my small display)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Roberts Posted 26 November , 2008 Share Posted 26 November , 2008 They were pretty useless, though I imagine if one hit you on the top of the head it would just keep on going... Frank Courtney, later a famous test pilot, was a Sergeant Pilot with 3 Sqdn RFC flying Moranes in 1915. He says: "Flechettes were small pencil-like steel darts released from a can a couple of dozen at a time, devised for use against cavalry. They were supposed to terrify whole regiments of Uhlans by dropping in ghostly silence clean through man and horse. It is a pity that there seems to be no honest evidence that anybody was ever hit by one". On October 21st 1915, he took off to attack a balloon using flechettes and grenades. He points out that flechettes were already declared obsolete by then, but "they might promote a lot of leaky holes in a balloon". In the event "after we crossed the lines, Thornton (his obsever) used one can of flechettes for a drop test; we had never used them before. They were so clumsy that he gave up and dropped the other two cans overboard". (The flight ended with them being shot down by a Fokker; he believed the pilot was Immelman but this does not tally with Immelman's diary or his victory records). Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 26 November , 2008 Share Posted 26 November , 2008 They were pretty useless, though I imagine if one hit you on the top of the head it would just keep on going... They could go straight through a cavalry man and his horse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarey_71 Posted 26 November , 2008 Share Posted 26 November , 2008 Hi Georg The RAF Museum at Cosford in the West Midlands has several original darts on display. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georg Posted 29 November , 2008 Share Posted 29 November , 2008 I was able to locate two of these darts. One is German type and is marked “DRGM " and one marked fabrication allemand and invention francais ( which is French for- French invention and German manufacturing) I read on one of the links that the dart were invented by the French and they were made in Germany before the war for the French. Take a look at my photos and let me know what you guys thinks- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desdichado Posted 3 December , 2008 Share Posted 3 December , 2008 There's a theory that flechettes were responsible for the tale of the "Angels of Mons". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 3 December , 2008 Share Posted 3 December , 2008 There's a theory that flechettes were responsible for the tale of the "Angels of Mons". How? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desdichado Posted 3 December , 2008 Share Posted 3 December , 2008 The tale goes (as told to me by one of my teachers) that the ghosts of Henry the Fifth's archers stood behind the Tommies at Mons and loosed a flight of arrows into the oncoming German troops. Some research I did into this obscure story some years ago positied the theory that flechettes dropped from the air were responsible for starting the story. Haven't you heard this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 3 December , 2008 Share Posted 3 December , 2008 The tale goes (as told to me by one of my teachers) that the ghosts of Henry the Fifth's archers stood behind the Tommies at Mons and loosed a flight of arrows into the oncoming German troops. Some research I did into this obscure story some years ago positied the theory that flechettes dropped from the air were responsible for starting the story. Haven't you heard this one? The story of St George and the bowmen originated in a fictional story by Arthur Machin published in a London newspaper. On a number of occasions he publically stated that it was fiction . The Angels got added to the mix in 1915 by a spiritualist newspaper. There are many alleged sightings of angels over the WF and various explanations incliding luminscent clouds, cosmic rays etc etc (the one I like the best though it may have been tongue in cheek is a UFO full of alien camera men reporting for some extra terrestrial form of CNN!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desdichado Posted 3 December , 2008 Share Posted 3 December , 2008 The story of St George and the bowmen originated in a fictional story by Arthur Machin published in a London newspaper. On a number of occasions he publically stated that it was fiction . The Angels got added to the mix in 1915 by a spiritualist newspaper. There are many alleged sightings of angels over the WF and various explanations incliding luminscent clouds, cosmic rays etc etc (the one I like the best though it may have been tongue in cheek is a UFO full of alien camera men reporting for some extra terrestrial form of CNN!) Ha. There's all kinds of weird and wonderful tales emanating from the war. I'm sure that some folks accepted as truth that spectral archers appeared to the men in the trenches. Spiritualism was quite big in those days and its following increased after the war. I did a bit of research some years ago at the Spiritualist Association of Great Britain in London some years ago and their library contains many interesting volumes relating to post war phenomena, mostly dead soldiers appearing to give messages to their loved ones. Sir Hugh Dowding became interested later on and became a patron, as did Oliver Lodge and Conan-Doyle. I didn't know that they concocted the "Angels of Mons" story though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Roberts Posted 4 December , 2008 Share Posted 4 December , 2008 I wouldn't have thought that the number of flechettes that could be dropped by a 1914 BE2 or Farman could possibly be mistaken for the hail of arrows loosed off by the massed Yeoman of England! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushfighter Posted 4 December , 2008 Share Posted 4 December , 2008 Georg British pilots in East Africa used them against German African infantry. If a plane came down in enemy territory the crew was unlikely to be taken prisoner. A German officer named Naumann led a raid north into German East Africa in 1917. A British plane attacked what he thought was Naumann's column with flechettes as the column crossed the Central Railway. Unfortunately soldiers of the Nigeria Regiment received the flechettes. They were following-up Naumann. At least one Nigerian died. Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desdichado Posted 4 December , 2008 Share Posted 4 December , 2008 I wouldn't have thought that the number of flechettes that could be dropped by a 1914 BE2 or Farman could possibly be mistaken for the hail of arrows loosed off by the massed Yeoman of England! It would only take a few. Add to this a fertile imagination and, lo and behold, a wonderful and patriotic myth is born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 4 December , 2008 Share Posted 4 December , 2008 But has the story originally started as a piece of fiction in a newspaper flechettes don't come into it. Poor old Arthur Machin kept on having to tell people it was all a work of fiction but still the tale grew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desdichado Posted 4 December , 2008 Share Posted 4 December , 2008 But has the story originally started as a piece of fiction in a newspaper flechettes don't come into it. Poor old Arthur Machin kept on having to tell people it was all a work of fiction but still the tale grew. You can see why people would latch onto it though. It's a story that you'd like to believe was true even though logic dictates that it couldn't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now