Medal Collectors

[Guest Hoof Hearted]

Hoof , sorry.

I would never be in that position as the only medals i ever wish to own are my GGF `s pair which will pass on to me one day.

I am sure you can guess i am no collector !

Roland.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A career in politics beckons for you Arnold!

Okay, lets try it this way.....

The MM trio (or "just" a pair) are in a collectors collection that you know of. He has spent £xx buying them, quite legimately, and further £xx researching them - thus they are in good hands that have appreciated their true worth - not £££'s. As a great-grandson, you want them. Would you expect the medals to be given to you? Similarly, supposing there is another great-grandson who knows how much cash they are worth and wants to cash in on them. Who has the greater right of ownership?

[Sgt_Hazell_Great_Grandson]

A career in politics beckons for you Arnold!

Okay, lets try it this way.....

The MM trio (or "just" a pair) are in a collectors collection that you know of. He has spent £xx buying them, quite legimately, and further £xx researching them - thus they are in good hands that have appreciated their true worth - not £££'s. As a great-grandson, you want them. Would you expect the medals to be given to you? Similarly, supposing there is another great-grandson who knows how much cash they are worth and wants to cash in on them. Who has the greater right of ownership?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If i was in a position to pay for them and they once belonged to my GGF then , of course , i would want them.

My point was that many collectors may be reluctant to sell them but at a price over the odds they might change their mind.

Arnold.

[Guest jonny956]

Ahhhhh.........and surely Roland, there in lies the rub! Its human nature and its an up hill battle to fight it!

Of course there are greedy, money orientated, medal collectors/dealers out there, just as there are arm chair historians who like to pontificate without ever leading men into battle or ever having fired a shot in anger themselves. In my experience however most are friendly chaps, simple souls even, who just like to get on with something that helps them relax after a hard days work. If granny snooks wanted the family medals back at a market value I would give serious thought to letting her have 'em back, but each case is different and must be judged on its merits.

Medal collecting, in a similar vein as collecting WW1 postacards, is a relatively harmless hobby........so......just let 'em be!

[Sgt_Hazell_Great_Grandson]

If granny snooks wanted the family medals back at a market value I would give serious thought to letting her have 'em back

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are a Gent , Sir.

Roland.

[Borderman]

I’m not a collector but don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against collectors. My point was how ‘cheap’ they were or had become. Just seemed to symbolise how devalued their efforts had become.

Collectors cherish these medals that others have discarded or sold for monetary gain, so good for them.

A Tad difficult if they've been cremated!

......And akin to burning the Mona Lisa,because Da Vinci is dead,I dont understand the logic,had the original owners wanted them buried with them it would have been done @ the time,surely better that someone cares for them,enjoys them,researchs the recipient,thus keeping the memory of his very being & service alive,what is achieved by planting them in a grave site,perhaps never visited,nor remembered?

Yes, they owners might be cremated, buried at sea etc. And I must get on and do the research. I suppose they could be buried in on of those crowded, never visited, nor remembered cemeteries you often see in Flanders and Picardy.

Either way I bought them, they are mine until I dipose of them as I see fit.

It rather reminds me of a little old man who died alone in a terraced house in Currock, Carlisle. Little money and no signs of relatives. Buried 'on the parish'. I suppose the 'house clearers' got his medals because the were found and bought in a secondhand shop in the city and given to the Castle Museum. Did he want to be buried with them? No idea, might not have occured to him. I don't want to be buried with mine and would hope my lads will pass them on, with my father's - if I've brought them up properly.

[David_Bluestein]

Ok then Pals, same  lady suddenly comes into some money.She is so desperate to have Dads medals back she is happy to offer £2500 for the group.

What would you do now ?

Roland.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They are MY property* and I, as anyone else who owns a legal item, has all the privileges of ownership, where by I get to make the decisions on if I sell or not.

In the case described above, I will consider it, and here might be some of my considerations:

The MM Trio is to the ASC/RE/or RA, no citation, no supporting research…

YES I might very well consider parting with the group, at fair market value. WHY: Because it holds less research value then say…

An MM Trio to a ‘Pals’ Battalion (or other Line Regt.), accompanied (lets say) by an original citation for actions of July 1, 1916. Lets further say this soldier was later killed at Arras or Passchendale...My answer here is a NO, NO WAY, NOT A CHANCE.

WHY: This is a rare and very emotive group, and one that does not come about every day.

*I do however hate refereeing to ‘my’ medals in this way(as property). I see myself as the proud temporary custodian of these medals, that represent such gallant and selfless men. See the below link for a better understanding of my evil hobby…

http://www.hellfire-corner.demon.co.uk/actingcaptain.htm

[NIGEL]

Ahhh the value of your collections!

Well most people think that the monetery value will always increase ( very foolish )

What goes up can crash ! 15 years ago people paid fortunes for antique furniture--you would be lucky to give it away now, same thing happened to antique silver.

At the moment medals have boomed in value but if peoples tastes change or other things happen then it could go over night and you could lose thousands and your prized medals become scrap metal again, just because something is rare doesnt mean it can be of value

[George Armstrong Custer]

15 years ago people paid fortunes for antique furniture--you would be lucky to give it away now, same thing happened to antique silver.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll have some of that please!

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

Ahhh the value of your collections!

Well most people think that the monetery value will always increase ( very foolish )

What goes up can crash !  15 years ago people paid fortunes for antique furniture--you would be lucky to give it away now, same thing happened to antique silver.

At the moment medals have boomed in value but if peoples tastes change or other things happen then it could go over night and you could lose thousands and your prized medals become scrap metal again, just because something is rare doesnt mean it can be of value

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Which is why most Collectors Collect & Research,because they are more interested in the Man behind the Medal,his story & life,than the monetary aspect,which we cannot deny,It costs us money to Collect,just as it would if we Collected Jaguar XK120s or Ming Vases,& we are not naive enough to assume that Heaven forbid,we have to dispose of our collections or part hereof,we will necessarily recoup our expenditure,{though if they continue to increase @ the levels of the past five or so years,it will be a Cold Day in Hell when it fails to happen}As has been reiterated immeasurably,ANY Collection is only Valuable when it is put on the Market,whilst it resides on a Wall ,in a Case or in a Vault;though it may be a Collateral it has effectively no Value,especially if the current Owners/Custodian/Whatever/Has not intention of disposing of them,so in all reality during a true Collectors lifetime They are not really interested in "Value" as it has no place in the equation.

And even with such a narrow view of the World I cannot for the life of me envisage a scenario when Medals,a very Finite Resource,could ever become so debased as to merely be regarded as Scrap,barring World Destruction & Thermo Nuclear Meltdown,{In which case it wont worry anyof us!},they have been Collected since the first Medals were awarded,& though,they like other Collectables have suffered,dips in popularity,their followers have in General always remained strong & the Market Healthy for the best part of 150 years or so.I would certainly rather have my Collection of Medals than a Warehouse full of Brown Furniture!

[yellow]

Medals never fall in value........dealers lists only stagnate as they did in 1990-91. In the history of british medal collecting there has never been a fall in price........there have only ever been price increases.

Its not at all like houses where greedy builders are having to knock off 10K to their properties because they cannot shift them.

As long as this country is still fighting wars there will always be medals and there will always thus be an interest.

I know many medal collectors who wouldnt sell their collections for one million. To them its a hobby which they live for.....the amount of hours spent on research wouldnt be worth that one million......you might think its sad but for some its a motivation to live.........their entire life revolves around the hobby.

Steve.

[RWFmedals]

Ahhh the value of your collections!

Well most people think that the monetery value will always increase ( very foolish )

What goes up can crash !  15 years ago people paid fortunes for antique furniture--you would be lucky to give it away now, same thing happened to antique silver.

At the moment medals have boomed in value but if peoples tastes change or other things happen then it could go over night and you could lose thousands and your prized medals become scrap metal again, just because something is rare doesnt mean it can be of value

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think there is some confusion around the word value here.

Personally I don't give a jot if the price crashes tomorrow. I'm not an investor - I am a collector. I value the medal and the name that is on it - not the associated price tags that are being banded about.

A medal will NEVER be scrap metal in my eyes. And therefore being rare - it is of historical value.

Richard

[Muerrisch]

'Collecting' is a strange human activity, primarily a male activity from my jaded observations.

I know many medal and badge and artefact collectors, and, whereas I sometimes smile at their [as I see it] compulsion, I certainly am entirely in sympathy with their results, especially when research accompanies acquisition.

And I cannot throw stones, as I collect information. Fortunately, it is much cheaper than medals [even a good, rare Military Manual can cost less than a trio] but I have a golden rule: 'how much is it worth to me?' always gets asked before 'I must have it'. Usually, when I reckon a book is overpriced [and I claim to be an expert in my narrow field] and walk away, I end up getting two or three more desirable ones for the same total within a month or so.

[NIGEL]

Point taken Richard but there are some who only collect for value and also even if you dont it can work out to be an expensive hobby if it goes belly up.

[RWFmedals]

Point taken Richard but there are some who only collect for value and also even if you dont it can work out to be an expensive hobby if it goes belly up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Nigel

Yes I agree that there are also those who collect for value (aka investors) - and I think that is where a lot of emotion is coming from.

I for one would hate to be pigeon holed in that bracket - and I know some of my collecting friends who have added to this thread would be too.

With regards to if the market crashed ? My dedication to my chosen hobby has kept me away from the pubs and clubs when other friends were boozing their cash away and spending money on flash cars and generally frittering it away . . . . also every summer when my wife is thinning out her wardrobe . . . . I allow myself a wry smile. I think my money has been well spent - irrespective of the financial return.

Richard

[Sgt_Hazell_Great_Grandson]

An MM Trio to a ‘Pals’ Battalion (or other Line Regt.), accompanied (lets say) by an original citation for actions of July 1, 1916. Lets further say this soldier was later killed at Arras or Passchendale...My answer here is a NO, NO WAY, NOT A CHANCE.

http://www.hellfire-corner.demon.co.uk/actingcaptain.htm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe if the said soldier had not been KIA you might consider selling ?

Roland.

[David_Bluestein]

Maybe if the said soldier had not been KIA you might consider selling ?

Roland.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmmm, maybe? Maybe not?

I would have to know more about said group before deciding. BUT I will bet dollars to donuts you are insinuating that I, the evil medal collector is ONLY after those groups of whom the soldier was killed...How gruesome and inappropriate, you think!

How little you know about why we do what we do.

Imagine that the soldiers I have researched (over the span of 25+ years), written about, presented to countless school groups about, are soldiers who otherwise are as forgotten as leaves in the wind. It is so very sad that they are, for the most part all but forgotten.

My deepest passions are to breathe life into their memories. Make no mistake, this is not about money… this is about the story of the man behind the medal. I have come, though my research to ‘know’ many hundreds of them very well. Every medal in my care is a new project of discovery, a new story to tell.

To take a name from the darkness of obscurity and the annals of time, and in a way, bring him to life, if only for the time it takes you to read the article I have written on a said soldier. I cherish the memories of these men. This is my life’s passion.

But I know nothing I say will ever change your mind, Sir, so see me any way you choose…The evil, money hungry medal collector if you wish.

You are just SO, SO WRONG.

David

[Guest jonny956]

Well said that man! I am hoisting that comment up my flag pole, saluting it AND tooting my bugle!

......now that rarely happens at my age!!

[NIGEL]

Well said that man! I am hoisting that comment up my flag pole, saluting it AND tooting my bugle!

......now that rarely happens at my age!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Viagra--where would we be without it?

[hmsk212]

I collect medals and have done for many years and I find it sad that there are people out there that think that I am a parasite for having this fulfilling and worthwhile hobby. Over the years I have re-united split groups and each medal I have is researched to the best of my abilities and within the constraints of a very tight budget. I have in the past returned a medal of an officer to it's family for nothing only to see it re-appear on eBay several years later. Who is ripping off whom in this case. I am fed up to the back teeth with the do-gooders on this site who, lets face it, wouldn't donate the contents of their wallets to a good cause let alone "return" items to families who have given up the right to own them. I for one will no longer bother with this forum as the small mindedness of a few are spoiling it for the majority of members who have joined the forum to learn something and not to slag people off for no apparant reason. A very sad farewell

Steve

[Guest C729LEE]

Ive heard of worse......people who have to venture to Hull to collect rent from students to fund their collection.

Saucey,

I didnt spot that one - you little tinker

Lee

[Guest C729LEE]

I know many medal collectors who wouldnt sell their collections for one million. To them its a hobby which they live for.....the amount of hours spent on research wouldnt be worth that one million......you might think its sad but for some its a motivation to live.........their entire life revolves around the hobby.

Nice one Yellow, I like the cut of yer' jib.

If not the jibe that I am a money grabbing Rigsby type

Lee

And if I want something badly enough I'll pay (sometimes - more often than not - more than the going rate.) The monetary value is incidental, the fact that I can buy something that will only increase in value, give me the pleasure of learning/researching, give me more of a sense of history, and at the end of my life - if need be, secure a little wealth and security - all well and good - as far as I can see there is nothing wrong with being the custodian of a piece of history, as long as it is cared for and passed on when I can no longer look after it , to someone who has the same intentions as myself.

Lee (seriously - for a change)

[stiletto_33853]

I collect medals, so what, big deal. Some people collect butterflies, beer mats, stamps, death cards or whatever.

What I will say about my collection is that in digging as far as possible in my research of the recipient it has led to some fantastic discoveries and furthered my research in general. I am the guardian of these medals and in collecting them I honour these men, remember them and learn never to forget what these people achieved and suffered for you and I, and it is amazing what you can learn in researching them.

I have never done it for monetary gain, and never will but out of a general interest in this period in history. Whether it is a simple British War Medal or a Distinguished Service Order there are things to find out about the recipient, his life, his achievements etc etc.

My collection to some local men was used as an exhibition locally to educate schoolchildren and the local population about what these men went through, who they were and the life and times of that period locally. With all the research that I have managed to do on the recipients and the local war memorial it helped fill a widening gap in the area's history and one that is rapidly disappearing.

For those amongst you that think we are parasite's, what have you done of this Ilk to help educate people about these men????

With regard to the monetary side, I do not count the cost. If I purchased a simple British War Medal and paid say £20 for it, I might spend another £20 researching the recipient, so now I have a British War Medal that to make a profit on I would need to sell for £40+(without counting my time). There are not many people around that would pay that money for this medal. So am I in it for profit, I think not. I enjoy researching the individuals as do many collectors who use this and other sites, the recipients of the medals in my collection have become like old and respected friends. Many of us have re-united groups of medals to honour these men, and paid over the top for doing so because the person who has the missing medal knows our passion, now who's a parasite.

So for those who think badly of us collectors, I would say this, who are you to make character judgements on myself and other collectors, not all medals issued were to casualties. Very few of the collecting community are out for monetary gain believe it or not ,and, you clearly have no idea of why we do what we do.

So please get of your holyier than thou pedestal. You may form the opinion that we are parasites, so be it, there may be a lot of things that you do I may not approve of but do you hear me spouting my opinions on you or your quirks in life!!!!!!!!

Andy

[NIGEL]

Andy i think the bits that people have posted against collectors are really mistaken, i think their real gripe is with the dodgy side and not someone like yourself

[Sgt_Hazell_Great_Grandson]

My own personal view is that medal collectors do a service.

As has been pointed out many of the medals in collections would have been lost for ever and for that a big well done.

However my only gripe is with people who fail to realise that their collections are far more important than collections of beer mats ! For some families the medals are the only link to their long since passed-on relatives , they are each unique pieces.

If a collector had my GGF `s medals in his collection i would feel that they should be in my family and would hope the collector would sell at a fair price.

Some would sell some wouldn`t sell and as people have pointed out it is up to the collector if he would let the medals be re-united with the family.I am sure a handsome offer would tempt some.

Are medal collectors parasites as asked in the first post ?

Not in my book.

Roland.

[priv]

Nothing else to add apart from THANK YOU to the members of this Forum whose posts have resulted in another very learned and helpful member leaving.

I am referring to HMSK212 who has provided many members with considerable information that they would not have obtained without his help.

A Big Hand to all who contributed towards this.

How about a separate and private area for the small minded fickle do gooding boneheads to have a damn good winge about everything they wish to.