RNR Patrol Service service Register

[macfarro]

Hello, following the many service record threads I have located and downloaded the service register of a relative but, being a novice to the naval section of this forum, much of it is still unclear and would much appreciate an explanation of the terminology.

Pls find attached doc (very brief).

Rupert Hawkins came from a long line of Thames boatmen, mostly tugs and barges and the the only naval reference I could find for him was on the birth cert of his son in 1916, which gave fathers occupation as 'Seaman RNR Patrol Service' Ramsgate.

What can I tell about his RNR service from the doc?

many thanks in advance

Rob

Rupert_Victor_Hawkins_naval_Record.pdf

[RNCVR]

Hi Rob,

I have had a look at Robert Victor Hawkins SR & will translate as best I am able:

He entered the regular RN 3 Aug '14 under ON (Official number) J35492. the 'ncs' notation following his ON means he was not a continuous service (long term) rating - he was likley just entered for hostilities. He ent'd in the rank of AB so that means he had prior merchant or sailing experience.

He signed on first at the Navy Office in Ramsgate & from 6 March '15 served in the Ramsgate Auxiliary Patrol - HMS Ceto was the A/P Parent ship at Ramsgate. He appears to have drafted to HMS Wildfire on 15 Feb '17 but the entry is very faint & I am unable to make out the info in brackets( ) or following the date. Wildfire was the Sheerness Brightlingsea Auxiliary Patrol boat base.

He was then transferred to the Mercantile Marine as a Mate on 8 May '18.

I hope this helps you somewhat.

Bryan

Edited 15 October , 2005 by RNCVR

[macfarro]

Bryan

Many thanks for the explanation, if I could just ask a further couple of questions...

i) By 'Regular' Navy, does that mean he was not RNR

ii) Is the 'ON' official number the equivalent of an army service number i.e it will be quoted on all his navy records (and can therefore be used to search)

iii) By entering so early in the war, is it likely he was a ''volunteer'' - much like the of patriotism of those rushing to join the army at the outbreak of war. Or was there a maritime equivalent of the territorial force which may have been summarily transferred or activated.

iv) General question, what is the likely reason he was transferred from the Navy to the mercantile marine

Once again thanks for your time, you've shed quite a lot of light on what was a fairly dark area

regards

Rob

[macfarro]

Bryan

Many thanks for the explanation, if I could just ask a further couple of questions...

i) By 'Regular' Navy, does that mean he was not RNR

ii) Is the 'ON' official number the equivalent of an army service number i.e it will be quoted on all his navy records (and can therefore be used to search)

iii) By entering so early in the war, is it likely he was a ''volunteer'' - much like the of patriotism of those rushing to join the army at the outbreak of war. Or was there a maritime equivalent of the territorial force which may have been summarily transferred or activated.

iv) General question, what is the likely reason he was transferred from the Navy to the mercantile marine

Once again thanks for your time, you've shed quite a lot of light on what was a fairly dark area

regards

Rob

[RNCVR]

Bryan

Many thanks for the explanation, if I could just ask a further couple of questions...

i) By 'Regular' Navy, does that mean he was not RNR

ii) Is the 'ON' official number the equivalent of an army service number i.e it will be quoted on all his navy records (and can therefore be used to search)

iii) By entering so early in the war, is it likely he was a ''volunteer'' - much like the  of patriotism of those rushing to join the army at the outbreak of war. Or was there a maritime equivalent of the territorial force which may have been summarily transferred or activated.

iv) General question, what is the likely reason he was transferred  from the Navy to the mercantile marine

Once again thanks for your time, you've shed quite a lot of light on what was a fairly dark area

regards

Rob

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Rob,

To answer yr questions:

1. A J prefix to his ON means he signed on as an RN regular. J prefix denotes Seaman & Communications branch ratings. I would have thought that he might have been a Short Service rating given his Mercantile Marine background, but he might have had a reason for signing on in the RN regular force.

2. Yes, the ON is their service number, & it would be the equivalent of an Army service number, & it should be on all of his RN records. he would not have an ON for his Mercantile service tho.

3. I would think he signed on at the beginning of the war perhaps for the reasons you have mentioned & he would have been a volunteer - the RN did not conscript. He must have been in the MM prior to this as he was entered directly as an AB (Able Seaman) & to be ent'd in this rank he must have had prior seagoing experience. The 'equivalent' of the Army Territorrials would have been the RFR (Royal Fleet Reserve) made up of RN pensioners & Coast Guard personel.

4. I dont know why he signed on in the RN & did not remain in the MM Rob - perhaps patriotism, perhaps his mates were signing on in the Ramesgate area & he wanted to be with them - I cannot say. He would have retn'd to the MM as he was promoted to Mate - or offered a Mate's appointment in the MM - this an Officer rank in the MM. I expect he signed on as a 3rd, or perhaps 2nd Officer in the MM, again due to his prior MM experience, & his pay would have been much greater in the MM.

I cannot help you with MM personel Rob as I dont know much about them, but I could give you the email address of a fellow on the British medals forum who specialises in MM officers & ratings. I am sure he would not mind assisting you,

Bryan

[per ardua per mare per terram]

HAWKINS’ occupation on entry to the Royal Navy was Deck Hand, which is a mercantile marine grade; he was only 18, which is very young to be an AB so he probably had time on a training ship. He entered on 3/8/14, war was not declared by Britain until 4/8/14, so he got in before the patriotic rush however, the navy had been mobilised in July, by Churchill and Battenberg, ahead of both the army and war declaration – he might have been thinking of joining anyway or it might have been a condition of his training that he joined the regular navy.

AB is a step up from Deck Hand (and Mate is a big step up from AB) his record smacks of someone on a fast track. There are records at Kew for Mates, and I’m guessing he later became a Master. Have you looked on the NA site to see if he claimed any WW2 medals as a merchant seaman?

[macfarro]

I checked the NA site this morning as you suggested - but no luck unfortunately. I also had an off forum chat with someone recomended by Bryan (above) and he has listed the relevant files at the NA which should give me more data.

Looks like a trip to Kew is required.

I really appreciate the ideas and suggestions, if you have any more thoughts I'd be pleased to hear them.

many thanks

Rob

[RNCVR]

Thats sounds good Rob - pls keep us posted on your findings,

Bryan

[macfarro]

[i have had a look at Robert Victor Hawkins SR & will translate as best I am able:

He entered the regular RN 3 Aug '14 under ON (Official number) J35492. the 'ncs' notation following his ON means he was not a continuous service (long term) rating - he was likley just entered for hostilities. He ent'd in the rank of AB so that means he had prior merchant or sailing experience.

He signed on first at the Navy Office in Ramsgate & from 6 March '15 served in the Ramsgate Auxiliary Patrol - HMS Ceto was the A/P Parent ship at Ramsgate. He appears to have drafted to HMS Wildfire on 15 Feb '17 but the entry is very faint & I am unable to make out the info in brackets( ) or following the date. Wildfire was the Sheerness Brightlingsea Auxiliary Patrol boat base.

He was then transferred to the Mercantile Marine as a Mate on 8 May '18.]

I have just received the marriage certificate of Rupert Victor Hawkins from May 1916 and his occupation is listed as 'Seaman HMS Chichester Ramsgate''

Rereading the service record, I believe the info in brackets mentioned above is actually 'Tug Chichester'

The question is, what was HMS or Tug Chichester and what did she do?

Can anybody help please

many thanks

Rob