Duncan Posted 27 September , 2005 Share Posted 27 September , 2005 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LORD-KITCHENER-DEATH...1QQcmdZViewItem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombadier Posted 27 September , 2005 Share Posted 27 September , 2005 As Baldrick would say "I didn't know that you could buy these as single items. I thought they only came in boxes of 12" Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max (UK) Posted 27 September , 2005 Share Posted 27 September , 2005 Please forgive my ignorance - what is wrong with the item? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombadier Posted 27 September , 2005 Share Posted 27 September , 2005 Please forgive my ignorance - what is wrong with the item? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The next of kin of each soldier who died were awarded one Death Plaque bearing the man or woman's name. Kitchener appears to have had dozens as they keep coming up for sale. The genuine one is believed to be in the posession of his decendants. All the rest are fakes. Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 27 September , 2005 Share Posted 27 September , 2005 I think there must have been more than one Kitchener plaque "commissioned". As far as I am aware you cannot fake a death plaque - well you could but it would be with an inscribed name rather than a raised name. We have had several threads on Kitchener's plaque and death plaques that you will find from the search engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcderms Posted 27 September , 2005 Share Posted 27 September , 2005 There's a cottage industry in India faking death plaques! Search the forum and it's on the last Kitchener plaque post (I think). As to' cannot be faked' - mate, I could do one in my shed with little more than some sand, wax and a decent heat source... The basic problem with the piece of tat linked above is that ALL Kitcheners awards were held by his brother after his death and NEVER released (sold). Check the Kitchener Society via Google if you need more info, anyone. This plaque has been listed at least four times this year, every time forum members and K fans email the seller and he/she removes it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 27 September , 2005 Share Posted 27 September , 2005 As to' cannot be faked' - mate, I could do one in my shed with little more than some sand, wax and a decent heat source... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Apologies - I will rephrase my original comment. No doubt there are resin plaques made in India (or garden sheds) with the intention to fool the purchaser but I doubt a plaque can be faked to the extent it would pass muster with any reasonable collector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcderms Posted 27 September , 2005 Share Posted 27 September , 2005 When there's real money involved, people will fake anything. With laser cutters for mould making, access to the right technology would make making the mould (always the hard bit) relatively easy. The casting is very simple although there are always the challenges of metal purity, the pour etc. but trust me this can/has been done... and would pass muster. To my mind, the famed 'Kitchener plaque' is at best a sample or additional plaque run off at one of the manufactures circa WW1. ---edited----- The best example I can give you re: the ability to make the mold is the making of the last Star Wars movie - copied all the original Vader props and improved them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 27 September , 2005 Share Posted 27 September , 2005 A quick perusal of the numerous other threads on this subject will show that this plaque is not a fake, but it is unlikely to be the one that was issued directly to the family. This plaque has been listed at least four times this year, every time forum members and K fans email the seller and he/she removes it. This statement is not correct. It is true that the item has been up for sale on numerous occasions on ebay but has just never attracted a bidder. The seller then relists the item at a later date and usually at an inflated price. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westkent78 Posted 27 September , 2005 Share Posted 27 September , 2005 A quick perusal of the numerous other threads on this subject will show that this plaque is not a fake, but it is unlikely to be the one that was issued directly to the family. This statement is not correct. It is true that the item has been up for sale on numerous occasions on ebay but has just never attracted a bidder. The seller then relists the item at a later date and usually at an inflated price. Andy <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Max is correct. A large proportion of this seller's stock have been listed on eBay many times before, some of it has been appearing for years now. The only thing that changes is that the price rises every so often. Matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 27 September , 2005 Share Posted 27 September , 2005 Why doesn't e-bay pull the plug? Serious question .. I'm not an e-bayer. Des Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Posted 27 September , 2005 Share Posted 27 September , 2005 I feel that its nice as a curiosity but nothing much else, as it's nicely presented I would have thought it's worth a fair old wack just as a talking point.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 27 September , 2005 Share Posted 27 September , 2005 No doubt there are resin plaques made in India (or garden sheds) with the intention to fool the purchaser but I doubt a plaque can be faked to the extent it would pass muster with any reasonable collector. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I am not a collector, I have handled (played with) 2, they belonged to my grandfathers. Using existing plaques for material and a model, I see no real difficulty in making one to order. The museums of the world have basements full of fake artifacts which duped the experts of the day. Whether the effort would have sufficient reward is another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcderms Posted 29 September , 2005 Share Posted 29 September , 2005 I'd also add that (a) as it isn't the one issued to the family and ( the details are incorrect (please see the other threads re: title etc.) .)---edited:please don't use terms such as this when describing items on ebay or elsewhere as it can expose this forum owner to legal action-------- If a 'plaque' made (allegedly) circa WW1, using the same materials and machines used for other plaques and similar to another issued to the family is indeed 'real' then I'm off to find a foundry ASAP! I now an easy source of WW1 brass, can get a set of molds made and will be flooding eBay with 'plaques' ASAP... Anyone fancy a 'genuine' Albert Ball for £10k? ;-) of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 29 September , 2005 Share Posted 29 September , 2005 I think Kitchener's medals and awards are on display at the excellent RE museum in Gillingham, Kent. Presumably they are on loan from the family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcderms Posted 29 September , 2005 Share Posted 29 September , 2005 Use Search to check out the previous related threads - only reporting what I hear! Also - not really the essence of the thread but an illustrative point :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now