Dardanelles v Gallipoli

[Guest annpa]

Hello

Patience with a newbie, please!!

Am new to the Turkish theatre of war, so do not know if there is a difference between the Dardanelles and Gallipoli.

Family history has my granduncle being wounded at the Dardanelles, but would that be the same as Gallipoli?

[PhilB]

I think the Dardenelles is the narrow waterway leading to Istanbul and the Sea of Marmora, whilst the peninsula that we invaded was called the Gallipoli Peninsula. Phil B

[michaeldr]

Anna

I find your question of interest because my own grandfather never referred to the campaign as ‘Gallipoli’ but always as ‘the Dards’

I took this to be a reflection of his service with the RND with its naval traditions

Thus the campaign to him was named after the waterway and not the peninsula.

For my own purposes I tend to refer to the campaign as ‘the Dardanelles’ until 24th April 1915, and ‘Gallipoli’ from 25th April 1915 until January 1916.

Regards

Michael D.R.

[Guest annpa]

Anna

I find your question of interest because my own grandfather never referred to the campaign as ‘Gallipoli’ but always as ‘the Dards’

I took this to be a reflection of his service with the RND with its naval traditions

Thus the campaign to him was named after the waterway and not the peninsula.

For my own purposes I tend to refer to the campaign as ‘the Dardanelles’ until 24th April 1915, and ‘Gallipoli’ from 25th April 1915 until January 1916.

Regards

Michael D.R.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks

So the battles are called by either name?? I hope I can find Uncle Jimmy somewhere!!

[PhilB]

Thanks

So the battles are called by either name?? I hope I can find Uncle Jimmy somewhere!!

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I think Michael`s got it right - Primarily, the sea action prior to 25/4/15 was in the Dardenelles. The land action after that date was on Gallipoli. Phil B

[truthergw]

Anna

I find your question of interest because my own grandfather never referred to the campaign as ‘Gallipoli’ but always as ‘the Dards’

I took this to be a reflection of his service with the RND with its naval traditions

Thus the campaign to him was named after the waterway and not the peninsula.

For my own purposes I tend to refer to the campaign as ‘the Dardanelles’ until 24th April 1915, and ‘Gallipoli’ from 25th April 1915 until January 1916.

Regards

Michael D.R.

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A popular parody of the time, spoke of Charlie Chaplin and sending him to the Dardanelles. My Great Uncle spoke also of the Dardanelles.

[bluedog]

G/Day all

When talking to Brits, Aussies Kiwis I have mainly heard it

described as Gallioli but the Dards is a reasonably common

name in use.

My Turkish friends and Turkish history always describes it

as the "Battle of Canakkale"

Peter

[bluedog]

Sorry all

Write it out 250 times before you go home Peter

The correct spelling is GALLIPOLI

Peter

[James Brown]

I tend to agree with Phil B.

But during my research of the Royal Scots Fusiliers, 1/4th and 1/5th Btn's. The description of the Theatre of War in the 1/4th btn's case was described as Dardanelles. And in the 1/5th Btn's case it was Gallipoli. Same Brigade, same Division!

I checked the Highland Light Infantry, Manchester Battalions, Royal Dublin Fusiliers etc etc and all casaulties described as Gallipoli.

Why the difference?

James

[The Plummed Goose]

Let me give it a try ...

First of all the Turkish version (as started by Peter, Hello mate, have you finished your 250 "Gallipoli" yet?")

Çanakkale Savaşları : "The Canakkale wars" ... Why wars not war ??? Don't know but worth trying to find out. (Bill ... ???)

The French call it "La Campagne des Dardanelles" and Gallipoli is rarely mentioned be it to indicate the Township.

Carl Mühlmann in the German official history does the same "Der Kampf um die Dardanellen 1915" although at least he had a tiny reason to know Gallipoli better as it was the HQ of Liman Von Sanders.

I personally think that when the initial plans where put on the table in London it was logical to talk about the Dardanelles and not about Gallipoli and I wouldn't necessarely connect that to Naval battle/landing seperation.&

Every "educated" person had heard of the Dardanelles (called the Hellespont in ancient times) during the study of the Greek language : Troyes, Darius, Xerxes, the story of Hero & Leander ... And it certainly was put on the map by Lord Byron in 1807 when he swum across.

I am sure that by calling it (initially at least) the Dardanelles it gave the whole plan a nostalgic & romantic boost ... Isn't it great to go and fight in the footsteps of Hector? The number of diary entries dwelling with being where the ancients Greek have fought, comparing the River Clyde to the Troyan Horse, etc. etc. are numurous.

Than later when getting more practical and into detail the name Gallipoli gained (small town but strategic point on the Peninsula) ...

Just an idea

eric

[PhilB]

Than later when getting more practical and into detail the name Gallipoli gained (small town but strategic point on the Peninsula) ...

Just an idea

eric

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But, more importantly, the name for the whole peninsula. At least, it appears to be so now and I am assuming it was in those days? Phil B

[Stephen Nulty]

The list of Operational Theatres of War, used for MIC's states:-

"2 Balkans

a Greek Macedonia, Serbia, Bulgaria & European Turkey

b Gallipoli (Dardanelles)"

Not sure if that clears it up or not though

[Guest annpa]

Hi all

This has been an amazing reaction to my little question. I'm learning more each time I sign on!

have been promoted from Private to Lance-Corporal I see!!

Annpa

[PhilB]

Hi all

This has been an amazing reaction to my little question. Annpa

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Size is not everything in questions, annpa! Phil B

[MartinWills]

To some degree one can think of the Dardanelles as the naval campaign and Gallipoli as the campaign on land ................ though one might complicate it by considering the Kum Kale landing as Dardanelles as it was on the Asian coast od the straits. I guess we just get used to living with both.

[Eceabat]

As to Eric’s query (another beer is due here), the Turks often describe the campaign by referring to the naval war and the land war, possibly the reason you get the Canakkale Wars (though rightly it was a campaign, one of many fought by the Ottomans during the First World War but the only one they can claim as an outright victory).

And as to "Isn't it great to go and fight in the footsteps of Hector?", look what happened to him.

Phil, yes it was the Gelibolu Yarimada (Yarim = half, ada = island, the Turkish term for Peninsula in 1915 and long before.

Cheers

Bill

[Gibbo]

The British & Commonwealth Army campaign battle honour was titled "Gallipoli 1915-16". Honours were also awarded for various actions within the campaign but there wasn't one called Dardanelles for the army. Royal Navy warships were awarded the Battle Honour "Dardanelles 1915-16".

[Mat McLachlan]

Interesting thread. I'd like to chuck in my two cents by saying that, to the forces involved, there may have been a distinct differentiation between the campaign in 'Gallipoli' and 'the Dardanelles' but my study of the campaign indicates that to the layperson of the time, the two terms were pretty interchangeable.

The famous 'A call from the Dardanelles' poster is a good example (see attachment) as are the numerous first hand accounts from Diggers referring to either Gallipoli, the Dardanelles and sometimes even both in the same document.

I think the simple answer to your question, annpa, is that (in general conversation at least) both terms refer to the same campaign.

Cheers,

Mat

[Bryn]

Newspapers of the day used the terms 'Dardanelles' and 'Gallipoli' pretty much interchangeably, and both terms appear in original Anzac service dossier correspondence.

The peninsula was originally called 'Gallipoli.' The whole area was Greek, and had been settled by Greeks since ancient times. 'poli' is from the Greek 'polis', meaning city. The town was originally known as 'Gallipolis,' also as 'Kallipolis', from which 'Gallipoli', meaning 'City of the Gauls,' came.

The modern town of Gallipoli, which, though now known as 'Gelibolu,' was certainly not known as such up to and during the First World War.

In the early 1920s the Greeks and Turks had a 'population exchange.' The ethnic Greeks went to Greece, the ethnic Turks living in Greece went to Turkey, and at some point in the 1920s the Turks changed the name of Gallipoli to Gelibolu.

[Geoff S]

Just to add to the location story.

Australian Unit War Diaries at the 'beginning' of the campaign frequently don't refer to the Dardanelles or Gallipoli.

They state their location as 'Gaba Tepe'. This was based on the closest town to their landing point. I think later in the campaign they changed their location name in the WD's to the Dardanelles.

Cheers

Geoff S

[Bryn]

Anzac and Helles, and later Suvla and Helles, were totally distinct from each other. Anzac and Suvla joined near Hill 60, but Helles was something like 20 km away to the south with nothing but Turkish-held territory in between.

[Guest Tosun Saral]

Just to add to the location story.

Australian Unit War Diaries at the 'beginning' of the campaign frequently don't refer to the Dardanelles or Gallipoli.

They state their location as 'Gaba Tepe'. This was based on the closest town to their landing point. I think later in the campaign they changed their location name in the WD's to the Dardanelles.

Cheers

Geoff S

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Hello from Ankara Turkey, Everybody answered this forum have right. They all gave right knowledge. We Turks call this battles as a friend told above "Canakkale Savaşları" or "Boğaz harbi" the Strait war. The Canakkale Wars because of three different battles. one is March 18th 1915 the neval attack and the second is landing on peninsula which we call Gelibolu. The third on Asian part of Canakkale.

Gelibolu was taken by Turks at 1357 without a resistance. The Commander was Sultan Orhan's older son Suleyman Pascha. It was very easy for the Turks to take Gelibolu. They were only 40 braves. They crossed the strait on rafts. During the long era of Ottoman Turks Gelibolu played an important role. On the Gelibolu shipyards many navy and trade ships builded. The world famous Turkish Great Admiral Piri Reis, who is famous with his world map which is exactly similar to todays satalite maps, was borned in Gelibolu during his fathers naval duty.

For more information plese visit my Gallipoli pages:

http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/7d696/1c1cb1/

[Jerrymurland]

Here is a photo of the Dardanelles taken from the ferry looking at the Gallipoli Peninsular. to my simple brain the Dardanelles are the wet bit and Gallipoli is the dry bit.

Jerry

[snavek]

Here's another source from some one you either love, hate or pick the bits out that you think can't be 'sexed up'.

Lloyd George's Memoirs, p248. Extract from 24th February 1915 War Council: L.G.-'agreed that a force ought to be sent to the Levant, which could, if necessary, be used after the Navy had cleared the Dardanelles to occupy the Gallipoli Peninsula or Constantinople....................'

26th May 1915 'The War Council reorganised under the title of the Dardanelles Committee, which more accurately described its scope'.

Keith