22nd Battery Machine Gun Corps (Motors)

[JPJamie]

1 hour ago, pjwmacro said:

 

James

I agree that it looks like the man on the right is holding a camera. I'll leave it to you to try and identify that - definitely not my field of expertise!

Interesting photo for a number of reasons:

1. Girdwood was ASC but to me it looks like his cap badge in the photo is MGC(M)? Or is the scan just not good enough to tell. Or did the ASC guys adopt MGC insignia?

2. Judging from the hut in the background i'd say this photo was taken in England not India. I know that huts did exist in India - but generally the photos I have seen puts accommodation in India as being in tents or colonial/tropical barracks.

3. If it is UK - Bisley ..... or Eastbourne.

 

Here is a closeup (I happened to leave Photoshop open) and it definitely is MGC(M).  I also agree the image is most likely in England.  One clue (in my opinion) are the bricks and brick work.  I have photographs of white tents and barracks all in India. 

 

Edited 8 June , 2017 by JPJamie

[david murdoch]

3 hours ago, pjwmacro said:

 

James

I agree that it looks like the man on the right is holding a camera. I'll leave it to you to try and identify that - definitely not my field of expertise!

Interesting photo for a number of reasons:

1. Girdwood was ASC but to me it looks like his cap badge in the photo is MGC(M)? Or is the scan just not good enough to tell. Or did the ASC guys adopt MGC insignia?

2. Judging from the hut in the background i'd say this photo was taken in England not India. I know that huts did exist in India - but generally the photos I have seen puts accommodation in India as being in tents or colonial/tropical barracks.

3. If it is UK - Bisley ..... or Eastbourne.

Regarding the cap badge this is something I have been wondering too. I've had discussion in the past about this regarding the L.A.M.B units where a good number of the personnel were also ASC (No.1 and No.2 drivers in the armoured cars and all the support vehicle drivers and mechanics), but not got anything definitive as to how they were badged, as they were ASC but attd MGC(M).

In this case (and in the Indian photos) the MGC personnel are wearing regular MGC badges without the MMG underneath. The one in the Eastbourne photo is certainly an MMGS badge. I'm wondering once the MGC took over if they standardised the cap badge, and the different branches (Motors and Heavy Service) just had different shoulder titles. A good number of the battery had enlisted prior to MGC taking over so were certainly MMGS first, and would have had "MMG" badges, and I'd suspect would hang on to them. My grandfather was at Bisley right around the same time and have him badged "MMG", and I believe had this badge all the way to demob. Also got a late war photo from Mesopotamia of another guy atop an armoured car also wearing an MMG badge.

[JPJamie]

Here is another view of bungalow interior at Kuldana...

 

[JPJamie]

Here is Corporal Tom Stewart in India on a motorcycle.  This view and angle is similar to another picture in this thread featuring Sgt. Ward and J Rodger near the bottom of page 2....

 

Edited 8 June , 2017 by JPJamie

[david murdoch]

5 hours ago, pjwmacro said:

 

From the 1901 census I have a John Girdwood born in 1898 in Wishaw to Andrew (a spirits salesman) and Jessie Girdwood (both born 1867 at Carluke) - do you think this is our Girdwood? If so he had a big sister Jessie b 1892. I cannot find a service record for M2/097864 Pte Girdwood ASC.

Paul - Yes him for sure. Born 28/3/1898. I found him as dentist in Wishaw in 1927 phone lists, then renting a property as a dentist in 1930. He got married 10th July 1929 to Agnes Samuel Thom. On the marriage certificate gives his profession as dental surgeon and his parents names match (as above). His address was Thorncliffe, East Thornlie St, Wishaw, which matches with address on MIC  - so him without a doubt. From that checked out on Scotlands People and got him on the 1911 census . By then had a younger brother Andrew born 1904.

His wife Agnes died in Huntingdon in 1973. Still looking for him.

Back on topic - this means he joined up aged 17 and had his 18th birthday out in India - he looks pretty young in the photo.

[JPJamie]

Here is a new guy not on the lists above: Frank Taylor.  Don't know what RAMC means...

 

Edited 9 June , 2017 by JPJamie

[david murdoch]

8 minutes ago, JPJamie said:

Here is a new guy not on the lists above: Frank Taylor.  Don't know what RAMC means...

 

Royal Army Medical Corps.

[JPJamie]

This is Charles Keddie who lived in 12 Shaws Street "Pilrig" Edinburgh.

 

Edited 9 June , 2017 by JPJamie

[JPJamie]

My grandfather James Petrie Jamieson

 

[pjwmacro]

5 hours ago, JPJamie said:

This gent is a mystery, as I cannot make heads or tails of my grandfather's notes. 

Edinburgh I know, but what else?

 

 

CK (I guess) are his initials. (Do I recall a Charles(?) Keddie on either your or Davids's lists?) Then an address (again indicating they kept in touch) 12 Shaw St P???? Edinburgh. I cannot tell from the photo, if he Is he an officer?  The stick might suggest so, but I cannot see rank badges.

5 hours ago, JPJamie said:

My grandfather James Petrie Jamieson

 

 

Great photo!!  Love you to find one like this of my grandfather.

[pjwmacro]

6 hours ago, david murdoch said:

Paul - Yes him for sure. Born 28/3/1898. I found him as dentist in Wishaw in 1927 phone lists, then renting a property as a dentist in 1930. He got married 10th July 1929 to Agnes Samuel Thom. On the marriage certificate gives his profession as dental surgeon and his parents names match (as above). His address was Thorncliffe, East Thornlie St, Wishaw, which matches with address on MIC  - so him without a doubt. From that checked out on Scotlands People and got him on the 1911 census . By then had a younger brother Andrew born 1904.

His wife Agnes died in Huntingdon in 1973. Still looking for him.

Back on topic - this means he joined up aged 17 and had his 18th birthday out in India - he looks pretty young in the photo.

Thanks David.  I think they all look young in the photos!

[david murdoch]

6 hours ago, pjwmacro said:

Thanks David.  I think they all look young in the photos!

CK is Gunner Charles Keddie - same address is on his medal card! Very lucky who ever filled in the cards when they added the GSM later added addresses! Especially with the Scottish ones I think can find out quite a bit more about them from the Scotlands People site (both before the war and what happened to them all) Following on from that may be able to track down more living relatives.

Frank Taylor of the RAMC may have been attached as battery medic - there are lots of them in the MIC list, but may be able to find him if he got the GSM and clasp.

The others not positively identified yet are.

Duncan ASC

J. Rodger

Ross (Banker)

Botteril

Lafferty

Kellet  Sgt.

Whitfield Sgt.

Barton Sgt.

[JPJamie]

8 hours ago, pjwmacro said:

 

CK (I guess) are his initials. (Do I recall a Charles(?) Keddie on either your or Davids's lists?) Then an address (again indicating they kept in touch) 12 Shaw St P???? Edinburgh. I cannot tell from the photo, if he Is he an officer?  The stick might suggest so, but I cannot see rank badges.

 

Great photo!!  Love you to find one like this of my grandfather.

 

Yes Paul it would be lovely to find your grandfather and I often think of that when looking at group images.  David you are a far better investigator!!  You are correct sir!   The image is of Charles Keddie who must have lived in 12 Shaw Street, "Pilrig" Edinburgh.  When I enter 12 Shaws Street, Edinburgh, Scoland, U.K., Google Maps comes up with great images of a densely populated Edinburgh neighborhood with older stone houses.  Another Google search (and a Facebook hit) brings up Charles Keddie names in of all places, Edinburgh, Scotland.  I bet one or more of these men are related...but I'll let that sleeping dog lie.

Edited 9 June , 2017 by JPJamie

[JPJamie]

This is a bit off topic, but relevant to this thread's (HTML) coding and intra-thread user navigation.  I also realize this may not be available within the tool's (manipulates HTML behind the scenes)  administrative options. 

 

It would be great to be able to select images in a page (this thread) and "anchor link" to them within the page (thread).  

Currently we are able to link to pages, but linking to paragraphs and photographs is possible.  This way a name like in this example: Charles Keddie (the link opens a new page displaying the image NOT directly to the image within the page) when clicked on could send the user right to the image (picture) on the page, not just to the top of the page where the image resides.

 

I kind of answered my own posting above.  IF you right click on any image a window pops up and you can choose to "Copy shortcut..." the image address (link).  Then you highlight the name (as I did above: Charles Keddie), select the link option above, paste in the URL address, select the link text and click "insert into post" button.  While this works, in that it opens a new page displaying the image, it does not take you to the page where the image was originally posted. 

 

So, while the link does displays the image, it takes the image (in my view) out of page related context 

Edited 9 June , 2017 by JPJamie

[david murdoch]

5 hours ago, JPJamie said:

 

Yes Paul it would be lovely to find your grandfather and I often think of that when looking at group images.  David you are a far better investigator!!  You are correct sir!   The image is of Charles Keddie who must have lived in 12 Shaw Street, "Pilrig" Edinburgh.  When I enter 12 Shaws Street, Edinburgh, Scoland, U.K., Google Maps comes up with great images of a densely populated Edinburgh neighborhood with older stone houses.  Another Google search (and a Facebook hit) brings up Charles Keddie names in of all places, Edinburgh, Scotland.  I bet one or more of these men are related...but I'll let that sleeping dog lie.

I took a look down John Girdwood's street in Wishaw and the building he rented as a dentist - both look to be the original buildings. 

[JPJamie]

3 minutes ago, david murdoch said:

I took a look down John Girdwood's street in Wishaw and the building he rented as a dentist - both look to be the original buildings. 

Yes...great stuff there David. 

 

The house where I lived in Ashgill, Lanarkshire (SE of Larkhall) is still there, three houses down from the church on Ashgillhead Road..

I check it yearly. The grounds have changed a bit, but the house is still the same.

 

Edinburgh, Scoland, U.K., 

I canny spell Scotland!?  I should be whipped!

[JPJamie]

Here is a group of (so far) unknowns...

 

[JPJamie]

Here is "acting" Corporal James Petrie Jamieson at right with shoulder stripe and cap showing badge with two unknowns...

 

Edited 9 June , 2017 by JPJamie

[JPJamie]

Here is J Thomson RAMC and he's probably holding a Lee Enfield .303 SMLE center fire rifle.

Out of all of my grandfather's images, this is the only picture showing a rifle.

 

 

 

Edited 9 June , 2017 by JPJamie

[JPJamie]

Here is another one of Keddie on what appears to be a Clyno motorcycle.

The original was very overexposed, so turned that down best I could.

The building directly behind Keddie appears to be the same one in photographs of Stewart, Ward and Rodger all on motorcycles.  

 

 

 

Edited 11 June , 2017 by JPJamie

[JPJamie]

I noticed pictures of gunner Keddie (above), Stewart as well as Ward & Rodger all appear to have the same building in the background.  The photographs of Stewart, Ward & Rodger have the same backgrounds, but matching Keddie was not as obvious. 

 

So I opened them in Photoshop, flipped back and forth between (also flipped them horizontally) them and found the building is the same in all three photographs.  There's a hole in the wall above the central door (I highlighted with a red circle) that's positioned the same in all three and there appears to be matching signage above the doors on the brick wall.  There's a banner (anyone know what it would say?)  in the middle of the building, a central smaller door and larger doors on either side. 

 

The photographs were taken at different times so the shadows don't match, exposures are different, but I "stitched" them together to show how the entire back of the building would look... 

 

 

 

Edited 11 June , 2017 by JPJamie

[pjwmacro]

On 2017-6-10 at 00:01, JPJamie said:

Here is J Thomson RAMC and he's probably holding a Lee Enfield .303 SMLE center fire rifle.

Out of all of my grandfather's images, this is the only picture showing a rifle.

 

 

Doubly curious as medics traditionally carry side arms rather than longarms (rifles) - as they are non combatants under the Geneva Convention. Firearms to be used in self defence (or defence of their patient) only. Mind you the Afghans hadn't signed the Geneva Convention - so maybe these rules were not applied in India/North West Frontier.

On 2017-6-10 at 00:01, JPJamie said:

 

On 2017-6-9 at 23:50, JPJamie said:

Here is "acting" Corporal James Petrie Jamieson at right with shoulder stripe and cap showing badge with two unknowns...

 

 

Neither of the other 2 are my grandfather. But thank you.

[pjwmacro]

On 2017-6-9 at 23:40, JPJamie said:

Here is a group of (so far) unknowns...

 

 

The right hand figure is a possible for my grandfather - i'll check with my Father.  I also wonder who the Indians are? Although certainly before the war even private soldiers could afford to keep a servant.  So they are probably servants or chai whallahs.

[pjwmacro]

Searching "Lives of the First World War" gives me just over 20 Frank Taylors and a similar number of J Thomsons in the RAMC. It does have service numbers against them though. So we may beable to makesome progress.

[JPJamie]

Paul: here is a better image of the guy you say may be your grandfather. 

600 dpi with some adjustment to better define his eyes...