Buried in the floor of St. Julien Church

[laughton]

Has anyone looked into this case? I could not find any reference in a search but I would think that the records must have some mention of a soldier that was the sole person buried in the floor of the St. Julien Church.

 

Two primary reasons for this post:

1. To make sure there is no duplication in research.
2. To provide a link for the next person that searches for this phrase.

 

Edited 8 November , 2016 by laughton
fat fingers

[laughton]

Cleaning up loose ends and classifying cases. This one always puzzled me, as you would think that someone recorded the event. It is not that he was buried in the church graveyard, he was buried under the floor.

 

Logically this would be around 24 April 1915 when the Canadians and British were very active in St. Julien.

 

Initially I thought it might be Lieutenant Colonel George Herbert SHaw, V.D. (Volunteer Officers' Decoration), as he was the most senior officer killed at that time. THe war diary reports his death (page 10 of 538). On the previous page it says they were at 28.C.24.a but swung to the north towards St. Julien, where they came under heavy rifle and machine gun fire. His unit was not one of those in the centre of St. Julien. The problem with Shaw is that I would have expected to have seen some reference to an Officer if it was him.

 

The others that were known to be in the area and are missing: (nobody stands out other than Shaw)

 

surname	forename	initials	death	rank	regiment	unit	#
SHAW, V.D.	GEORGE HUBERT	G H	24-04-15	Lieutenant Colonel	East Yorkshire Regiment	4th Bn.
EVANS	SAMUEL	S	24-04-15	Private	King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry	2nd Bn.	'16629'
FIRTH	WILLIAM	W	24-04-15	Private	King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry	2nd Bn.	'12489'
HUNTER	CHARLES GAWAIN RALEIGH	C G R	24-04-15	Lieutenant	King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry	2nd Bn.
HUTCHINSON	JOHN THOMAS	J T	24-04-15	Lance Corporal	King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry	2nd Bn.	'8702'
LINDLEY	TOM	T	24-04-15	Private	King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry	2nd Bn.	'12379'
RYAN	LAWRENCE	L	24-04-15	Private	King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry	2nd Bn.	'3/1492'
BIRKS	GEORGE EDWIN	G E	24-04-15	Private	King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry	2nd Bn.	'3/2084'
CLEGG	HARRY EDWIN	H E	24-04-15	Rifleman	London Regiment (Queen Victoria's Rifles)	1st/9th Bn.	'3378'
DAVIES	JOHN SEWELL	J S	24-04-15	Rifleman	London Regiment (Queen Victoria's Rifles)	1st/9th Bn.	'2065'
FARRAR	HOWARD ALAN	H A	24-04-15	Corporal	London Regiment (Queen Victoria's Rifles)	1st/9th Bn.	'1474'
FISHER	WILFRED	W	24-04-15	Rifleman	London Regiment (Queen Victoria's Rifles)	"D" Coy. 1st/9th Bn.	'2551'
FORD	PERCY GORDON	P G	24-04-15	Rifleman	London Regiment (Queen Victoria's Rifles)	1st/9th Bn.	'3250'
HERFORD	FRANCIS MACKAY	F M	24-04-15	Rifleman	London Regiment (Queen Victoria's Rifles)	1st/9th Bn.	'2294'
HILL	FRANCIS WILLIAM	F W	24-04-15	Rifleman	London Regiment (Queen Victoria's Rifles)	1st/9th Bn.	'1916'
JOINER	CHARLES	C	24-04-15	Rifleman	London Regiment (Queen Victoria's Rifles)	1st/9th Bn.	'3857'
PURKIS	HARRY WILLIAM	H W	24-04-15	Rifleman	London Regiment (Queen Victoria's Rifles)	1st/9th Bn.	'2586'
REYNOLDS	JOHN RICHARD	J R	24-04-15	Rifleman	London Regiment (Queen Victoria's Rifles)	1st/9th Bn.	'3613'
VANRYN	DAVID	D	24-04-15	Rifleman	London Regiment (Queen Victoria's Rifles)	1st/9th Bn.	'3448'
HALL	STANLEY ALFRED	S A	24-04-15	Rifleman	London Regiment (Queen Victoria's Rifles)	1st/9th Bn.	'3368'
WILKINSON	LEONARD	L R	24-04-15	Rifleman	London Regiment (Queen Victoria's Rifles)	1st/9th Bn.	'2240'
WILSON	EDWARD HENRY	E H	24-04-15	Rifleman	London Regiment (Queen Victoria's Rifles)	1st/9th Bn.	'2056'
SMITH	SYDNEY WILLIAM	S W	24-04-15	Rifleman	London Regiment (Queen Victoria's Rifles)	1st/9th Bn.	'1873'
NEWLING	ROLAND	R	24-04-15	Rifleman	London Regiment (Queen Victoria's Rifles)	"A" Coy. 1st/9th Bn.	'2364'
BRINTON	ROBERT CECIL	R C	24-04-15	Rifleman	London Regiment (Queen Victoria's Rifles)	1st/9th Bn.	'2376'
GIBBONS	REGINALD LIONEL	R L	24-04-15	Rifleman	London Regiment (Queen Victoria's Rifles)	1st/9th Bn.	'1053'
CASEY	JEREMIAH	J	24-04-15	Rifleman	London Regiment (The Rangers)	"D" Coy. 1st/12th Bn.	'1116'
COLES	HERBERT	H	24-04-15	Serjeant	London Regiment (The Rangers)	1st/12th Bn.	'505'
COLLINS	WILLIAM FRANCIS CHARLES	W F C	24-04-15	Rifleman	London Regiment (The Rangers)	1st/12th Bn.	'1934'
FINCHAM	FRANK	F	24-04-15	Rifleman	London Regiment (The Rangers)	1st/12th Bn.	'2154'
HARVEY	FREDERICK	F	24-04-15	Serjeant	London Regiment (The Rangers)	1st/12th Bn.	'120'
HILLEARD	PAUL JAMES	P J	24-04-15	Rifleman	London Regiment (The Rangers)	1st/12th Bn.	'2518'
KILLICK	THOMAS	T	24-04-15	Serjeant	London Regiment (The Rangers)	1st/12th Bn.	'1203'
POTTER	REGINALD VICTOR	R V	24-04-15	Rifleman	London Regiment (The Rangers)	1st/12th Bn.	'2517'
PREDDY	ALFRED HARRY	A H	24-04-15	Rifleman	London Regiment (The Rangers)	1st/12th Bn.	'1321'
TILDESLEY	FREDERICK WILLIAM	F W	24-04-15	Rifleman	London Regiment (The Rangers)	1st/12th Bn.	'2441'
TOONE	ERNEST	E	24-04-15	Rifleman	London Regiment (The Rangers)	1st/12th Bn.	'2046'
WHILES	SIDNEY HERBERT	S H	24-04-15	Rifleman	London Regiment (The Rangers)	1st/12th Bn.	'1886'
SCHULZ	HARRY ALBERT	H A	24-04-15	Rifleman	London Regiment (The Rangers)	1st/12th Bn.	'2341'
ANDREWS	WILLIAM FRANK	W F	24-04-15	Rifleman	London Regiment (The Rangers)	1st/12th Bn.	'2426'
BAKER	ARTHUR ASTBURY	A A	24-04-15	Rifleman	London Regiment (The Rangers)	"B" Coy. 1st/12th Bn.	'2286'
BONNETT	ROBERT	R	24-04-15	Rifleman	London Regiment (The Rangers)	1st/12th Bn.	'2681'
CONNELL	THOMAS	T	24-04-15	Lance Corporal	Royal Irish Regiment	1st Bn.	'9487'
FARRELL	ROBERT	R	24-04-15	Private	Royal Irish Regiment	1st Bn.	'3739'
FLYNN	JOHN	J	24-04-15	Private	Royal Irish Regiment	1st Bn.	'9208'
HOLDING	HARRY M.	H M	24-04-15	Lance Corporal	Royal Irish Regiment	1st Bn.	'10129'
LEAHY	THOMAS	T	24-04-15	Private	Royal Irish Regiment	1st Bn.	'7199'
LYNCH	PETER	P	24-04-15	Private	Royal Irish Regiment	1st Bn.	'10131'
TIERNEY	PATRICK	P	24-04-15	Private	Royal Irish Regiment	1st Bn.	'10027'
WILLIAMS	THOMAS	T	24-04-15	Lance Corporal	Royal Irish Regiment	1st Bn.	'8609'
WALSH	EDWARD	E	24-04-15	Private	Royal Irish Regiment	1st Bn.	'9692'
WARD	THOMAS	T	24-04-15	Private	Royal Irish Regiment	1st Bn.	'4072'
NOLAN	PETER	P	24-04-15	Private	Royal Irish Regiment	1st Bn.	'9778'
O'BRIEN	JAMES	J	24-04-15	Private	Royal Irish Regiment	1st Bn.	'10097'
ROCHE	EDWARD	E	24-04-15	Private	Royal Irish Regiment	1st Bn.	'4033'
BISHOP	WILLIAM	W	24-04-15	Private	Royal Irish Regiment	1st Bn.	'4498'
BREEN	JOSEPH	J	24-04-15	Private	Royal Irish Regiment	1st Bn.	'4660'
BUMSTEAD	JOHN	J	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'9460'
CHILVERS	GEORGE HENRY	G H	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'15290'
CLARKE	PERCY	P	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	"E" Coy. 1st Bn.	'5362'
CLARKSON	FREDERICK ROBERT	F R	24-04-15	Serjeant	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'8147'
COLEMAN	ARTHUR	A	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'3/8917'
ELLISTON	HENRY WALTER	H W	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'3/9025'
FISHER	ALBERT	A	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'7705'
FOX	WILLIAM	W	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'3/9010'
HART	GEORGE WILLIAM	G W	24-04-15	Serjeant	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'7389'
HARVEY		F	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'6294'
HOWE	JOHN	J	24-04-15	Lance Corporal	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'17582'
HURRELL	JAMES	J	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'3/8706'
INGREY	HARRY ALBERT	H A	24-04-15	Lance Corporal	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'3/8232'
LINDER	WILLIAM HENRY	W H	24-04-15	Lance Corporal	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'16545'
LOWE	JAMES	J	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	"C" Coy. 1st Bn.	'7471'
PERRY	PERCY	P	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'16669'
PORTER	GEORGE	G	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'16496'
PRICHARD	ROWLAND GEORGE	R G	24-04-15	Lieutenant	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	''
READ	ERNEST	E	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'3/8988'
REEVE	JACK	J	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	"B" Coy. 1st Bn.	'17824'
TURNER	HAROLD MARK	H M	24-04-15	Corporal	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'8363'
MEAD	HENRY CHARLES	H C	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'7207'
GRAYSTON	ERNEST DANIEL	E D	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'3/8082'
GREEN	ALBERT	A	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'8409'
GREEN	ARTHUR	A	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'17382'
GRUBB	JAMES	J	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'12784'
WOODS	JOHN	J	24-04-15	Serjeant	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'6506'
WHITE	HERBERT GEORGE	H G	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'18051'
SOUTHGATE	GEORGE STANLEY	G S	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'8247'
SOUTHON	EDWARD JOHN	E J	24-04-15	Serjeant	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'7472'
SHIPP	ALBERT GEORGE	A G	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'9349'
SIGGS	FREDERICK CHARLES	F C	24-04-15	Lance Corporal	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'7799'
MORLEY	HARRY	H	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'3/9509'
MUNNS	GEORGE	G	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'16342'
NEGUS	ALBERT	A	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'18548'
RUDD	JOHN	J	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	"A" Coy. 1st Bn.	'3/9955'
RUDD	PERCY NOEL	P N	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'3/8961'
ARNOLD	JOHN	J	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'9092'
BALES	WILLIAM	W	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'3/10341'
BOUTTELL		W C	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'15801'
BOYCE	STEPHEN	S	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'16485'
FRANCIS	HENRY ROBERT	H R	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'7508'
GARROD	ARTHUR JAMES	A J	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'9156'
GARWOOD	ROBERT JAMES	R J	24-04-15	Private	Suffolk Regiment	1st Bn.	'16943'

[thetrenchrat22]

1/6th Bn, Cheshire Regiment attacked St Julien on 31st July 1917

[laughton]

Good to know! Those Canadians are so slow learning the British ORBAT. 

 

Page 514 of 585 has them (118th Brigade, 39th Division) at Hill Top, getting ready for the attack. At 10:54 am they too Von Tirpitz Farm (TMC 28.D.7.b.3.7), which places them about 1,600 yards northeast of St. Julien. The Germans cut them off and they were forced to retire before noon. By 5p pm they are at Wine House, south of St. Julien (TMC 28.C.18.c.8.9). There is a good sketch map in the war diary (page 556 of 585) showing the lines, the green dotted line being just north of St. Julien. The Black Line was south of South of St. Julien.

 

The only casualty that stands out, that may have got special treatment was Company Serjeant Major James Finn #265012. There are no UNKNOWN Officers on the Menin Gate Memorial.

 

Most certainly, they were probably in St. Julien but not fighting within the village to the same extent that they were in April 1915.

 

It was interesting to look at this case, but it has nowhere to go unless someone finds an obscure reference to a burial within a church. You would think that would have been recorded somewhere. Perhaps the body was left behind and was buried by the locals?