billbir Posted 26 October , 2014 Share Posted 26 October , 2014 I am trying to find any records, regarding the above, who was my grandfather. All I know was ,that in 1916, elements of the 16th and 17th Battalions of the Kings Royal Rifles, were formed, at Bexhill, into the 109th Training Reserve Battalion. My grandfather was a Quarter Master Sergeant in that Battalion. I know that at some time they were billeted in Banbury, Oxfordshire, where he met my grandmother. He was born in West Ham, on the 24 June 1886. I would like to know anything about him, but particularly, whether he saw active service, within either the 16th or 17th Battalions, prior to 1915, when the Training Reserve Battalion, was formed. He died in Coventry in 1931aged 46 and I have no relatives to ask. So anything would be a major step forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 26 October , 2014 Share Posted 26 October , 2014 There are MIC's for 2 H Pearsons KRRC. Both show rank of Private. If he was QMS then maybe he did not go overseas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langdon Posted 26 October , 2014 Share Posted 26 October , 2014 There's a Young (public) family tree on Ancestry which has Harold (b. Forest Gate 1885, d. Coventry 1931) married to Bertha Emily Halls (1907) with the following children: Harold William (1907) Percy James (1910) Allen James (1911) Ronald Leslie (1912) Cyril Eric (1916) This may not be who you're researching (there are one or two varying dates from other sources - there's another birth certificate for July 1886 in West Ham, for instance) but there's a WW1 photo of a sergeant linked to Harold William (1907) which might be to do with his father. I can send a private message asking about this if this is of interest and you don't have access to Ancestry. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 26 October , 2014 Share Posted 26 October , 2014 Billbir Can you say where your info comes from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbir Posted 26 October , 2014 Author Share Posted 26 October , 2014 Hi Mike, No point looking there as most of the info has come from me, including the photo. Johnboy, Info. came from my mother, subjects daughter, birth certificates. Grandmother met him in Banbury, when he was billeting his troops, and this ties up with a document received from The Royal Green Jackets Museum, about the creation of the 109th Training Battalion.. Furthermore, there is this, which I have also posted on this site and others, without success:= ENQUIRY DETAIL: I have two newspaper articles dated 20 Jan 1917, which provide a summary of a Central Criminal Court case involving two Army personnel. One of them is named Harold William Pearson, Regimental Quarter Master Sergeant of a Training Reserve Battalion based in Wimbledon. I am 95% sure that this is my grandfather, but would like more details on the incident, to be sure. I believe that my grandfather was a Regimental Quarter Master Sergeant in the King's Royal Rifles and was with the 109 Training reserve at Banbury and Wimbledon. As two of the people involved, were in the Army, I suspect that this may have been the subject of a Court Martial, if so, I would like the details. Not sure if the Court Martial, would take place before or after the criminal trial period which would be 1916/7. The National Archives ref: for the trial was CRIM9/63. I would also like to know when my grandfather joined the Army and whether he saw action. Hope that this flimsy info. helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 26 October , 2014 Share Posted 26 October , 2014 Earlier post about the man - http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=219684&hl= Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 26 October , 2014 Share Posted 26 October , 2014 No MIC would suggest no overseas service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 27 October , 2014 Share Posted 27 October , 2014 I am trying to find any records, regarding the above, who was my grandfather. All I know was ,that in 1916, elements of the 16th and 17th Battalions of the Kings Royal Rifles, were formed, at Bexhill, into the 109th Training Reserve Battalion. My grandfather was a Quarter Master Sergeant in that Battalion. I know that at some time they were billeted in Banbury, Oxfordshire, where he met my grandmother. He was born in West Ham, on the 24 June 1886. I would like to know anything about him, but particularly, whether he saw active service, within either the 16th or 17th Battalions, prior to 1915, when the Training Reserve Battalion, was formed. He died in Coventry in 1931aged 46 and I have no relatives to ask. So anything would be a major step forward. What became 109th TR was originally 19th (Reserve) Bn., KRRC. It was formed in Oct 1915 from the Reserve companies of 16/KRRC and 17/KRRC after those two battalions had joined their brigades over the summer of 1915. 16/KRRC Reserve coys Sep 1914 - at Denham Camp and Rayleigh, with short stays elsewhere. Jun 1915 - 16/KRRC move to Clipstone leaving Reserve coys at Denham Jul 1915 - to Cooden Camp, Bexhill-on-Sea 17/KRRC Reserve coys Jun 1915 - at Paddock Hurst, Worth 01 Sep 1915 - 17/KRRC move to Hursley Park leaving Reserve coys behind at Paddock Hurst 06 Sep 1915 - to Cooden Cmp, Bexhill-on-Sea, joining the 16/KRRC Reserves 19/KRRC Oct 1915 - Reserve coys of 16/KRRC & 17/KRRC amalgamated at Bexhill 09 Nov 1915 - to billets in Andover 25 Nov 1915 - the Reserve coys of 18/KRRC joined the battalion RQMS W Leetch promoted to honorary rank of Lt and Quartermaster. Dec 1915 - the Reserve coys of 18/KRRC split out again to form 23rd (Reserve) Bn.,KRRC 01 Feb 1916 - to billets in Banbury 18 May 1916 - to hutments at Wimbledon Aug 1916 - formation of the Training Reserve & transfer of 19/KRRC to TR as 109th Bn., TR. 100 men transferred to 5/KRRC at Sherrness (this Reserve bn remained in the KRRC) No mention of a QMS Pearson that I could find. His Marriage Certificate may mention his unit. As others have said, probably never went overseas, but as a QMS, it is possible he may have been a pre-War Regular, though I see from the other Topic that he was 32 years old when he was convicted of fraud in 1917. That would give a year of birth of approx 1885 and an earliest likely enlistment of approx 1903. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbir Posted 28 October , 2014 Author Share Posted 28 October , 2014 Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, I cannot find a marriage certificate and I believe that he abandoned his wife and family, to create another life with my grandmother. It was said that they met, when he called at her house in Banbury, to billet troops. I suspect that he may have been involved with the Army, before the War, but cannot prove it. Two of his brothers were professional soldiers, well before the war. In the 1911 census, his occupation was listed as Assistant Secretary for a Church, however, later on in the year, there was a tragic death, of his baby son, which had my grandfather's occupation, as Drill Instructor. This sounds to me a bit military, but may be I am adding 2+2 to make 5 There was also a family view, that he had worked in the War Office, and that he had a letter of thanks from a Lord Grenville, at the War Office. I remember seeing a document as a child, but no one seems to have it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 28 October , 2014 Share Posted 28 October , 2014 Bill It seems you raised this query about 6 yrs ago. Unfortunately you did not respond to the replies. Did you follow any of them up? http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=94554 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 28 October , 2014 Share Posted 28 October , 2014 There was also a family view, that he had worked in the War Office, and that he had a letter of thanks from a Lord Grenville, at the War Office. I remember seeing a document as a child, but no one seems to have it now. Field Marshal Lord Grenfell was a prominent KRRC officer eventually rising to very senior command in the Army. He was also a Governor of the Church Lads Brigade and the sponsor of 16th (Service) Bn., KRRC (Church Lads Brigade) - the CLB's "Pals" battalion (using that term loosely). The Reserve companies of 16/KRRC were eventually formed into 19/KRRC, which in turn became 109th Bn, Training Reserve, and in which Pearson served. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 28 October , 2014 Share Posted 28 October , 2014 I wondered if there was a connection with CLB re his occupation in 1911 Census. but the bit about him deserting his wife threw me off. I wonder if there was a social connection between the 2 men ie a church? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 28 October , 2014 Share Posted 28 October , 2014 Harold William Pearson is covered by these various topics (includes this topic): Re: Harold William Pearson- Kings Royal Rifles Re: HW Pearson and Military Crime Re: Harold William Pearson- Court Martial Records 1916/7 Kings Royal Rifles, 109 Training Reserve Newbie Question re Harold William Pearson King's Royal Rifles - Training Reserves In some of these topics, Bill also refers to a topic posted in the Photos section, but I haven't not been able to find that yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 28 October , 2014 Share Posted 28 October , 2014 There was also a family view, that he had worked in the War Office, and that he had a letter of thanks from a Lord Grenville, at the War Office. I remember seeing a document as a child, but no one seems to have it now. Field Marshal Lord Grenfell was a prominent KRRC officer eventually rising to very senior command in the Army. He was also a Governor of the Church Lads Brigade and the sponsor of 16th (Service) Bn., KRRC (Church Lads Brigade) - the CLB's "Pals" battalion (using that term loosely). The Reserve companies of 16/KRRC were eventually formed into 19/KRRC, which in turn became 109th Bn, Training Reserve, and in which Pearson served. I wondered if there was a connection with CLB re his occupation in 1911 Census. but the bit about him deserting his wife threw me off. I wonder if there was a social connection between the 2 men ie a church? Field Marshal Lord Grenfell retired from the War Office in 1908 and died in 1925. He continued as a Colonel Commandant of the KRRC after his formal retirement of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbir Posted 30 October , 2014 Author Share Posted 30 October , 2014 Harold William Pearson is covered by these various topics (includes this topic): Re: Harold William Pearson- Kings Royal Rifles Re: HW Pearson and Military Crime Re: Harold William Pearson- Court Martial Records 1916/7 Kings Royal Rifles, 109 Training Reserve Newbie Question re Harold William Pearson King's Royal Rifles - Training Reserves In some of these topics, Bill also refers to a topic posted in the Photos section, but I haven't not been able to find that yet. I do have a copy of the photo referred to, but I am unsure how to display it on this forum. It was always said by the family, that my grandfather was on the photo, but there is no one alive who could confirm or deny and I never saw his photo. The comment on the Church Lads Brigade and Lord Grenfell, sounds a good connection, with my grandfather, being an Assistant Church Secretary in 1911 and also a Drill Instructor in the same year. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conijoni Posted 31 October , 2014 Share Posted 31 October , 2014 H W Pearson C/249 was in A Company of the 16th KRRC from 1914. He held the rank of CQMS and was the Orderley Room Sergeant. Before the war he worked at CLB Headquarters...in the stores maybe? He is pictured in The Brigade for January 1915 with the Lt. Col., the Major and a couple of others. Hope to put a picture up soon. Cannot help with any further information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbir Posted 31 October , 2014 Author Share Posted 31 October , 2014 H W Pearson C/249 was in A Company of the 16th KRRC from 1914. He held the rank of CQMS and was the Orderley Room Sergeant. Before the war he worked at CLB Headquarters...in the stores maybe? He is pictured in The Brigade for January 1915 with the Lt. Col., the Major and a couple of others. Hope to put a picture up soon. Cannot help with any further information. Wow! Thanks for that contribution. I am hoping that you can get the photo up soon, as I have a couple, but as I never saw him, and there were no photos at my grandmothers, I do not know what he looks like, though I have a mind picture, based on my mothers description of him. However, he died when she was about 9 so how accurate her description was is debatable. Can you let me know, how you upload the photo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conijoni Posted 1 November , 2014 Share Posted 1 November , 2014 You will have to wait until Sunday as I am away from home. Tried to load up but file is too big. Will need to resize it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbir Posted 1 November , 2014 Author Share Posted 1 November , 2014 I will be waiting!! As you can imagine, this is a 'very' big deal for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conijoni Posted 2 November , 2014 Share Posted 2 November , 2014 Here you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbir Posted 2 November , 2014 Author Share Posted 2 November , 2014 Thank you so much for that! How you came across the photo, is amazing, as no-one in the family has seen an image before. Thanks for the time taken on my issue. You have given me some more pieces to the puzzle, that was my grandfather. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conijoni Posted 2 November , 2014 Share Posted 2 November , 2014 You can repay the favour by sending me a short synopsis of what you have found out so far. I take an interest in this particular battalion as I was a lad and an officer in the CLB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbir Posted 2 November , 2014 Author Share Posted 2 November , 2014 I will see what I can come up with, though it may be sparse. I have found out more from the Great War Forum than from any other source. Do I assume that you are only interested in the Military side or do you want any pre-military info? Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conijoni Posted 3 November , 2014 Share Posted 3 November , 2014 I would be interested in a little pre military background as well as his military life. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 3 November , 2014 Share Posted 3 November , 2014 I would be interested in a little pre military background as well as his military life. Thanks. Ditto. Like Johnny, I also research 16/KRRC (and therefore 19/KRRC) as my grandfather served in this battalion. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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