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Remembered Today:

boer war/ww1


munchkin

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Hi All,

Is there an easy way of finding out which soldiers fought in the Boar war and WW1.

Is there a web dite that you can search on. I have had a look around but cant find anything.

Thanks

Glynn.

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I don't think so, since you would have to take into account that the Boer War ended only a little over 12 years before the outbreak of WW1, so a great many serving soldiers, those on the reserve, and territorials would have seen such service over there, since it was a huge burden on GB military manpower (hence the recruiting drives noticing the poor health of much of the lower classes - about one-third unfit for service - and thus leading to health reforms by the State).

I suppose one could hazard a guess given the age of soldiers 30+ years old in 1914 and serving with particular regiments, but otherwise probably need to refer to individual service papers. Again, not all soldiers joined at 17 or 18, some may well have been in their '30s when they enlisted, so although they would fit the right age range, this does not point to them as having served in SA.

Maybe regimental lists or medal rolls would help in this task, but it would take some doing.

Richard

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Thanks Richard,

I thought that it was a tall order. I just thought that it would be interesting to find out.

Thanks

Glynn.

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I'm able to find that information on the newspaper obituaries. Pre-war military service is usually mentioned. However, not everyone had a newspaper obituary.

I keep a spreadsheet on each obituary I acquire, so I should probably add another column to indicate if they served in the Boer War.

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Great idea - go for it. It would be so helpful for people that require this kind of information.

Glynn

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My father served in the Boer War (And one before that) and The Great War, in 1914 he was 39 and naturally survived the war otherwise I wouldnt be here. He had his left eye blown out in 1915 but still stayed in the service all the way to 1918.

Montague H. Chapin

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There would I feel be many Hundreds if not Thousands,of Boer War Veterans{& Veterans from Previous & later Wars/Campaigns} who served either from the Reserve,Were already serving as Regulars or TF Members,or who Re~Enlisted @ the outbreak of the First World War,without access to all WW1 service papers &/or their Medal Groups to X reference I feel this would prove a daunting research project.

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Maybe you are right. But there must be some other way of finding out which one of our ancestors served in both wars without looking through service papers. Maybe the regiments can help??.

Glynn

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Maybe you are right. But there must be some other way of finding out which one of our ancestors served in both wars without looking through service papers. Maybe the regiments can help??.

Glynn

Regimental Museums & Associations Rarely have much information on individual Soldiers,Medal Rolls if you are lucky,If you know the regiments that your antecedants served in the museums MIGHT just have the Medal Rolls for the QSA/KSA & 1914~1918,but they would not be likely to have X reference facilities to confirm or otherwise if the soldiers served in Boths Wars {unless the numbers remained the same,ie they remained serving from 1899~1918 ish}

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Gents,

I have been able to complete this task for my favourite Regt (the Dorsetshire Regt) fairly easily. All you need are the pre-Great War medal rolls and the WW1 medal rolls. When entered into a spreadsheet (too thick to use a database I'm afraid) then it is easy to sort or filter against regimental numbers which will indicate those who were either still with the colours on or the reserve, or against surname/initials. Old sweats who re-enlisted invariably went back to their old Regts. So if the name of an Indian NW Frontier or Boer War veteran also appears with a New Army or Special Reservist number then chances are he is one and the same man. One can never be certain unless the name is uncommon without reference to service papers but it's a fair bet.

I said fairly easily - requirements are deep pockets for an awful lot of photocopying at Kew, enormous patience to computerise the lot and a passion for you Regt, but I have found it thoroughly rewarding. It's a wonder I'm still married!

Regards

Steve

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Another aspect of this problem is what army to look in. My wife's great-uncle was killed in action in July 1918 at the Ourq River with the 165th U.S. Infantry (69th New York). His captain had also served in the British army in the Boer War. Just one more place to look it seems.

Ralph

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. All you need are the pre-Great War medal rolls and the WW1 medal rolls. then it is easy to sort or filter against regimental numbers which will indicate those who were either still with the colours on or the reserve, or against surname/initials. Old sweats who re-enlisted invariably went back to their old Regts. So if the name of an Indian NW Frontier or Boer War veteran also appears with a New Army or Special Reservist number then chances are he is one and the same man. One can never be certain unless the name is uncommon without reference to service papers but it's a fair bet.

I said fairly easily - requirements are deep pockets for an awful lot of photocopying at Kew, enormous patience to computerise the lot and a passion for you Regt,

Then you have to make the cross references to those who transferred to All the other Regiments & Corps & consequently DONT appear on the Parent Regiment WW1 Rolls,or who Joined Other units other than their Original Regiment,eg;RE/RA/ASC/RFC/Labour Corps/RDC/MGC etc,it would be unethical to record "Fair Bets" as historical Proof ,without the proof of entitlement

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I once sold a 14/15 trio to a Scottish Regt KIA 1st day of Loos to a fellow for £25 (It was long ago!) and he sent it back when he found from the local paper that he was entitled to Boer War medals. Do you think that missing "other" medals would seriously affect the value of WW1 groups?

I think we tend to overestimate the amount of information that regimental museums have available. I recall being surprised that the Lancashire Fusiliers (always very helpful) didn`t have a list of those who`d landed at Lancashire Landing or gone over the top on 1/7/16. It seems a good idea now, but they had other concerns then! Phil B

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My Great Grandfather was killed in 1915 while serving with the 2nd Batalion Royal Warwicks.After rejoining in 1914 after previous army service in the Boer War.

I picked up that he had,had previous Army Service ,again with The Royal Warwicks, from his eldest daughters 1902 birth certificate.His occupation was listed as "Former Private,7536,6th Royal Warwicks.

I was curious, had he seen service in the Boer War ??.A member of this forum found him on the Boer War Medal Roll which confirmed he had.I have since found his attestation papers which confirm his Militia enlistment and his Boer War service,it even gives the date he was discharged from the Militia.

After i found all this,i then came across his 1915 Newspaper obituary,which mentions his Boer War service.Had i found that before everything else,that would have been my first clue.Of course you can't use obituaries if who you are interested in servived WW1 !!.

A little easier for me,than for others,because at least i had his service number and regiment before i started my search.

Stephen

Edited by STEVEN
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My wife's paternal grandfather fought in both Boer and WW1, thats easy, but as has been said the information whilst available hasny been collated in the way that you want to see it unfortunately.

One hell of a research project...

John

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an example, pte william henry green

enlisted 1892(dudley)

served with 2nd worcesters in boer war

discharged 1904

enlisted 5/9/14 south staffs

landed in france 10/11/15

discharged 28/6/18 (aged 49)

the reason i know its the same man is because of discharge certificates

enoch

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I once sold a 14/15 trio to a Scottish Regt KIA 1st day of Loos to a fellow for £25 (It was long ago!) and he sent it back when he found from the local paper that he was entitled to Boer War medals. Do you think that missing "other" medals would seriously affect the value of WW1 groups?

Undoubtedly,as in effect a % of the story is then missing,most Collectors nowadays prefer to have the Complete Group or often would rather "Go Without"{it wasnt always so @ one time~not all that long ago the Collecting ideology was "One Of Each" which is not such common practice today,hence the Furore when the E Bay splitters strike!,proven Missing medals from a Mans group would make a considerable difference to the asking price,as they would reduce the desirability to a serious Collector

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Here's a nice account written by a soldier who served in the Boer War and WWI. The account was published in a 1982 collection of war stories written by the residents of a Toronto veterans' hospital. The accounts were collected by the staff and volunteers between 1975 and 1982.

****************

Joseph William Gibbs

born: Jan. 8, 1882

died: March 29, 1982

Service: Boer War (British Army) & WWI - RCA

Siege of Ladysmith (by Mr. Joseph Wm. Gibbs)

I was born in County Cork, Ireland and joined the British Army at an early age. The outbreak of the Boer War on October 11, 1899, found me in South Africa defending the Empire. I was serving under Lt.-General Sir George White when the British Army on October 30, 1899, retired into Ladysmith and were besieged by the Boers. We had only enough food for eight weeks and were besieged for one hundred and eighteen days, so you can imagine how hungry we became.

There were, however, lighter aspects to the siege. The Boers usually fired their big guns at the town at first light and then again at 10:00 a.m. and 4:00 p.m. In between, things would be pretty quiet. I think the Boers were trying to stop us having our routine cups of tea. Army life went on, but parties and dances were organized and I, who am only five foot one inch tall, remember dancing with Emily, a lady who was one foot taller. I was so light she could lift me off my feet in the reels.

After surviving the Boer War, I came to Canada and when World War I broke out I enlisted in Sir Henry Pellatt's regiment and served in France and Belgium. I particularly remember Ypres, which was a muddy hole and also the Battle of Passchendale where I strayed from my unit and was lost for a day and a night. However, what I remember best were the parties behind the lines and the entertainment supplied by a troupe of dancing girls.

Between wars I was a gardener. In Toronto, I laid sod around Osgoode Hall and the old City Hall.

****************************

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Guest stevenbec

Mate,

I can give you some details from the men I am looking at in the AIF.

Of the say 40,712 men and women I ve looked at so far some 819 are shown as having service in the Boer War. So around 1 in 40 men that served?

Most as you would guess are from Australian Units in the Boer War but there are many from British units who later settled in Australia. There are also some NZ'ers and Canadians.

Of cause finding much of this is hard but the AWM has a nominal roll of all Boer War Soldiers from Australia so cross checking the AIF nominal rolls of WWI can be done. But finding those who served in other Armies in the Boer War is almost impossible.

Hope this helps

S.B

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Hi Jordie Lad,

A very brave man. It is so sad that he had to sell his medals for a drink, after he served for his fellow country men, women & children. - i will be raising a toast to Private Robert William Wilkinson tonight. God Bless.

Glynn.

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I'll second that. Have you any photos of him in uniform that you can post ?.

Glynn

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Back to the subject. It is perfectly feasible to do the South Africa War/ Great War correlation for one battalion and, for officers, one whole regiment. Almost everyone who served in SA earned one or both campaign medals, and the rolls are accessible at TNA. And the Boxer Rebellion. A full list of dead by battalions is even more easily accessed from SDIGW. The only problem is the survivors. And that is where the graft is, and will never be completed. Particularly as I keep getting distracted by this darned web site. But 2RWF close to complete correlation.

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