Deserters

[Huw Davies]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this question.

Many years ago I heard that there had been a gang of disaffected soldiers of all nationalities - including German - living and hiding in disused bunkers in No Man's Land on the Somme. They lived as brigands, raiding supply dumps and convoys as well as local villages and farms for food.

At the time I didn't give this much thought, then 2 weeks ago on a visit to the Hay Festival I came across a novel which used this theme. The author claimed that whilst his story was fiction, it's main premise - that there was a gang of disafftected soldiers of all nationalities in No Man's Land - was true.

Can anyone confirm or deny this? If it is true, where can I find out more?

Many thanks,

Huw

[centurion]

Has been discussed on this forum somewhere some time ago. There do seem to have been some (not many) deserters operating in small criminal gangs but well behind the lines. Not in no mans land.

[Perth Digger]

This was probably a spin-off from the fictional story of Percy Topliss.

[centurion]

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...st&p=479409

Somewhere I've also seen reference to a few deserters from one of the dominions who went 'feral' in British woodlands ( a British deserter would have been able to have sought help from relatives etc).

[Gibbo]

In the TV drama series Anzacs, a gang of British and Australian deserters were in 1917 living in the dugouts of the 1916 Somme battlefield, which was by then well behind Allied lines because of the German withdrawal to the Hindenburg Line. It was a fiction series, but that sounds more plausible than men hiding in no man's land.

[johndavidswarbrick]

I assume that the novel referred to was "No Man's Land" by Reginald Hill. In his preface he cites Paul Fussell's book "The Great War and Modern Memory" and it's brief reference to "a wild gang of deserters living in the waste land of the old Somme battlefield" as the source of his fiction. It is quite clear that Hill, as the excellent story teller that he is, has taken this small nugget of possible fact and turned it into a good story; but it's quite clear, I think, that that is all it is - a story.

Dave Swarbrick

[Moonraker]

This was probably a spin-off from the fictional story of Percy Topliss.

Fictional or fictionalised? "Fictional" suggests a novel, whereas "fictionalised" implies some basic facts have been taken and presented creatively. As it happens, I'm just re-reading The Monocled Mutineer By William Allison and John Fairley, the blurb for which exaggerates Toplis's role in the Etaples mutiny of 1917. We've discussed Toplis and the mutiny in depth before.

(Was it really 24 or so years ago that the eponymous TV series was screened?)

Another "gangs of deserters" story comes from nearer home, Wiltshire in fact: A Very Man: Donald Drummond Clarkson 1880-1918 by Gresley Clarkson (Access Press, Australia) records on August 22, 1918:

"a band of regular outlaws about here [Fovant] and they can’t get them. They reckon they are about, hiding in the woods all day and they come out at night and steal …

One of the fellows from Hurdcott … said the night before that two fellows at his camp had been killed – they had sandbagged them and cracked their skulls …

I expect they are chaps that were absolute bad eggs in Australia and probably had to get out of it for their own health. Anyhow they have made things so willing that none of us care about being out late at night on our own. There have been about a dozen cases of sandbagging in the last month."

However, a check of local war graves reveals no interments that might confirm this story of two soldiers being killed. The unpublished memoirs of a local farmer’s son, Bob Combes, refer to "sandbagging" being an everyday topic:

"It had the advantage of stunning the victim if he was hit on the back of the head without causing any serious injury or after-effect other a headache. While he was unconscious, it was a simple matter to empty his pockets, and this nasty little habit made travelling alone a night a hazardous adventure. Unfortunately, sometimes there would be too much sand, or perhaps a stone in the sand, and the attack would prove fatal. Luckily this was seldom the case, but it made villagers and other occupants of the Camp reluctant to venture abroad after dark."

Moonraker

[centurion]

I suspect this describes the feral deserters that I was referring to. An Australian deserter probably had to kith and kin in the country he could try to turn to so crime could well be his only way to survive.

[Mark Hone]

As mentioned in earlier posts this topic has been discussed a couple of times on the forum. See for example:

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...=deserter+gangs

This contains a link to an even earlier thread. The very good book by James Hayward, 'Myths and Legends of the First World War', has a section on this story. The 'Fovant Thugs' have also been discussed previously. I think the conclusion was that this story, along with most of the others, were urban (or more accurately trench ) legends, exaggerated from odd incidents of drunkenness, indiscipline etc to this idea of whole subcultures of marauding deserters, some of whom had even devolved to subhuman savagery.

[Rob Connolly]

Well, think about the premise for a moment. If you're a gang of desperadoes living in No Man's Land, then you have to traverse the British, French or German lines in order to raid the "supply convoys". Then you have to get back into NML. So, you have to infiltrate or assault a set of fortifications designed to prevent that very same assault, and do it twice, whilst the soldiers in the trenches that you didn't infiltrate could well be warily trying to annihilate this latest variety of "trench raid".

These brigands might get away with it - once. After that, there won't be enough brigands left to carry out any brigandage.

[centurion]

Well, think about the premise for a moment. If you're a gang of desperadoes living in No Man's Land, then you have to traverse the British, French or German lines in order to raid the "supply convoys". Then you have to get back into NML. So, you have to infiltrate or assault a set of fortifications designed to prevent that very same assault, and do it twice, whilst the soldiers in the trenches that you didn't infiltrate could well be warily trying to annihilate this latest variety of "trench raid".

These brigands might get away with it - once. After that, there won't be enough brigands left to carry out any brigandage.

No one said they were intelligent deserters

[Rob Connolly]

Indeed! They probably got their just deserts.

Oh, is that my coat?

[headgardener]

Oh, is that my coat?

Yes it is.......!

[centurion]

There were organised gangs pillaging the relief supply trains going into Belgium in 1919 but where they came from who knows..

[James A Pratt III]

In 1918 there were a number of gangs of deserters/brigands in parts of the Austro-Hungarian Empire which created some major problems for the goverment.