corisande Posted 25 September , 2009 Share Posted 25 September , 2009 One of my ancestors didn't join the army but worked as a coal miner at Treorchy in South Wales during World War I. He had been a slate quarrymen, and I understand they were drafted into the coal mines of South Wales. Britain introduced conscription 2nd February, 1916, under DORA (Defence of the Realm Act). By then over a fifth of all miners had left coal-mining and enlisted in the army, and Britain needed more coal. Coal mining became a "reserved occupation" and miners were, as whole, not allowed to join the army, although the government did enforce a certain amount of weeding out of miners for transfer to the army right up to the end of the war. With the outbreak of the First World War in 1914, coal mines were taken under governmental control. Relatively a good period for miners as government control resulted in increased safety standards, and higher wages with the same wage rate in all areas. Miners were mainly happy that the government ran the mines. He was still working as a coal miner in 1919 in Treorchy, and then moved back to the slate quarries. I have tried to find record of those men who were allowed/required to be coal miners, but have not been able to find anything. Anybody any ideas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 25 September , 2009 Share Posted 25 September , 2009 Hi corisande ! I suppose you've already tried the Treorchy Library ? but I'll post just in case !! .... they also have Colliery Records there ! http://www.rhondda-cynon-taff.gov.uk/stell...dDocName=014124 Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 25 September , 2009 Author Share Posted 25 September , 2009 Hi corisande ! I suppose you've already tried the Treorchy Library ? but I'll post just in case !! .... they also have Colliery Records there ! Annie Thanks for the link. My problem is that I do not know which colliery. I have his address in Treorchy in 1919 from his marriage cert, and it says he was a miner still then- Evan Pugh, 13 New Chapel Street and 2 of his brothers were there too. I have done a fair amount of research on Treorchy mines and there were a stack of them in the area. So it is not just a question of getting the records of one mine What I am trying to get now is the mining equivalent of the call up papers of the miners. Given they were subject to DORA and conscription, but the government wanted them in the mines,one assumes that there would be registers kept of the miners, and that fact that the army was not to use them. Odd reall that so many were involved down the mines, but not much in official records ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted 30 September , 2009 Share Posted 30 September , 2009 'Weeding out' sounds a little derogetary, You may be thinking of "combing out". Generally speaking, at the begining of the war so many miners volunteered for the army (wouldn't you), that the mine owners kicked up a stink, and as a result those miners who had enlisted were not all drafted,and so had to stay down the mines. Later on in the war, when the army was in dire need of more men, 1916ish, the combing out of 50,000 miners for military service was not only approved by the miners unions, but they themselves aministered the selection of men for call up. So it may be to the unions that your answers lie. Churchill said in the commons in 1919 "The Order to comb out coal miners still continues in full force, but no class who have served in the Army have been treated with more special consideration." This was referring to the demobilising of men, but a spin on the way miners were recruited may also be assumed. By the end of the war men were again needed back in the mines hence the combeing out for demob. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 1 October , 2009 Author Share Posted 1 October , 2009 Britain introduced conscription 2nd February, 1916, under DORA (Defence of the Realm Act). By then over a fifth of all miners had left coal-mining and enlisted in the army, and Britain needed more coal. Alan Basically what I am trying to find out is how DORA and working in the mines came together in 1916. Did a miner get called up and then claim "I am a miner" or were they never called up because the mines claimed exemption for them. Do records exist of who were exempt from call up because they were a miner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted 1 October , 2009 Share Posted 1 October , 2009 As I said, it was in the hands of the union's. They managed the task of selecting who was to be called up. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 2 October , 2009 Author Share Posted 2 October , 2009 As I said, it was in the hands of the union's. They managed the task of selecting who was to be called up. Alan So do you reckon that the local unions cold have records of "selection" if I could track them down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geraint Posted 5 December , 2009 Share Posted 5 December , 2009 In the North East Wales coal mines, the bulk of the 4th RWF TF were from the Wrexham coalfields, left for France on 5th Nov 1914 and became a pioneer battalion due to their digging skills. There is no record in the detailed battalion history of any 'combing out' nor any thought of sending them home to dig coal. Frank Richards in Old Soldiers Never Die (2nd RWF) mentions in his memoire that as an oldish reservist, working in the mines, that his place was taken by colliers who were either too old or too young to enlist. The bulk of soldiers from the mining areas were in their physical prime - coaldust and silicosis not having affected them as yet. Colliers in their thirties, having worked underground would be physically unacceptable to the army, or were accepted in 1916 as B and C category men, and thought of as last resort material, for home duties; certainly not as front line troops. Your local newspapers should give decent accounts of the Tribunals which interviewed the men subject to Derby's registration and to conscription issues. Where the minutes went for archive- I don't know. I've searched the NE Wales record offices; RWF archive, with no luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 6 December , 2009 Author Share Posted 6 December , 2009 Where the minutes went for archive- I don't know. I've searched the NE Wales record offices; RWF archive, with no luck Thanks Geraint Quite odd really that the records do not exist - when you think how important coal was to the nation at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pighills Posted 6 December , 2009 Share Posted 6 December , 2009 There is a National Coal Mining museum in Wakefield who have extensive records the link is 'Here' - they have a library and you can also search the library catalogue and see what they have in the library online. Now they may or may not hold the Welsh records, I don't know, but I've had a look at the Welsh eqivalent - link 'Here' - and can't find anything about research resources so who knows. The staff at the Natinoal Coal Mining museum are exceedingly helpful and well worth an email, even if they don't have the records they may be able to point you in the right direction. For anyone else, if you can get to the Wakefield museum it's well worth going. Entry is free (from memory) and you go underground as the miners would have done and see their working conditions. They take you right back in time so you get to understand the conditions they endured. An excellent day out!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 6 December , 2009 Author Share Posted 6 December , 2009 Thanks for those leads. I have fired off an email to the NCM Museum and see what sort of response I get. As you say they ought to be able to point me in the right direction, if anything does exist. It does seem very odd that tens of thousands of men must have been conscripted for the mines - in as much as they were sent to the mines rather than the army when conscripted - and that no records exist. Thanks you too about the possibility of going to Wakefield. But I live in Spain, so will not get to Wakefield, but I remember still going on a school trip years ago down a working mine - cannot say it was somewhere I would have liked to work every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortheFallen Posted 6 December , 2009 Share Posted 6 December , 2009 Corisande Might also be worth posting a message on the Welsh Coal Mines Forum. Perhaps somebody on there can point you in the right direction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 6 December , 2009 Author Share Posted 6 December , 2009 That Welsh Coal Mines Forum looks fruitful too. I have just applied to join and will put up a message once they clear my membership It seems that there are a lot of specialist groups out there if you can find them! Thanks for that lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 11 February , 2010 Admin Share Posted 11 February , 2010 Hi resurrecting this thread, did you get a response? I have a similar problem a family of coal miners from Bedwas (Farmilo) they seem to be split 50/50 (ish) but it would help me to confirm some information if I knew who stayed behind! Thanks Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 16 February , 2010 Author Share Posted 16 February , 2010 Hi Never managed to get anywhere, and have not really found out what happened with coal miners and conscription records, but will keep trying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peridot Posted 16 February , 2010 Share Posted 16 February , 2010 Hi Never managed to get anywhere, and have not really found out what happened with coal miners and conscription records, but will keep trying Hi Corisande Given the comments re the Unions above have you tried what remains of the NUM? These records must have gone somewhere and that may be the favourite given what has been said. Peridot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 16 February , 2010 Author Share Posted 16 February , 2010 I think I have been just about everywhere on this. They either do not reply, or say they cannot help The men that worked in the coal mines in WW1 appear to have disappeared into a information viod. Odd really when you consider that it was an alternative to serving in the Armed Forces, that in fact the government mandated to keep supplies of coal coming through. And that lots of information is normally available on the armed forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 16 February , 2010 Admin Share Posted 16 February , 2010 Thank you for your reply and efforts. Not helpful for individuals but you may find this debate from 1917 interesting, esp. the contribution of Mr Edwards from South Glamorgan where he gives some idea of the numbers involved. http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons...9170621_HOC_452 I liked the MP saying they were being deprived of the 'joy of battle'. He also notes Mr. EDWARDS It is a report which it rather a striking sidelight on things. The Chief Constable of Glamorgan reports that owing to the shortage of work and the general idleness of the young men great difficulty had been placed on the police force in that county in dealing with them. It is not a point I should have made but, incidentally it throws a light on the subject. Here have been these meetings. They are the meetings of the men themselves. I find it a fascinating spin on social history - gangs of 'hoodies' causing problems for the Home Front in 1917! Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Thompson Posted 16 February , 2010 Share Posted 16 February , 2010 Hi Corisandie. I have only ever seen this once at Sheffield City Archives a big file called NCB and in it where a roll of miners and what they where paid in a number of Colleries mainly around South Yorkshire and it included up and into the WW1, so there are some records out there, I shall try tomorrow to find out about them. Cheers Roger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 16 February , 2010 Author Share Posted 16 February , 2010 Roger Thanks, any info gratefully received Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rksimpson Posted 18 February , 2010 Share Posted 18 February , 2010 Hi Some of my ancestors were in coal mines in Scotland, would there be any records on them? thanks Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peridot Posted 18 February , 2010 Share Posted 18 February , 2010 Hi Robert The Scottish National Archive do have records mainly of pre-nationalisation collieries and there is also a Scottish Mining Museum. Details of contact can be obtained by Googling "Scottish Mining Records" in both cases. There are also some NCB records available tho I think these are stored at Burton on Trent. Good Luck. Peridot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eltoro1960 Posted 18 February , 2010 Share Posted 18 February , 2010 Hi Folks The Scottish Mining Museum is in Newtongrange, I can tell you that their archives don't have dcouments on individual miners unfortunately, as I called in to see them. However this may have changed, Gillian Rankin is the person you need to speak to at the museum. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grantowi Posted 18 February , 2010 Share Posted 18 February , 2010 Corisande, Have you seen this site - http://www.cmhrc.co.uk/site/home/ If you have a look at the location map, it might give you an idea where your man worked, I would have said either Park or Dare (map 142) Grant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rksimpson Posted 19 February , 2010 Share Posted 19 February , 2010 Hi Thanks Peridot and John will try them regards Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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