L/10061 THOMAS JAMES HIGHGATE Royal West Kent Regiment (1st Battalion, Queen's Own)

[Cliff Rumsey]

I really dont want to re-open any debate that is going to be controversial as I know this topic does arouse differing opinions.

But I am visiting this Memorial in June and also have researched the path of the 1/QORWK (5th Division/13 Brigade)using Major Moloney's Invicta and am intrigued that someone Shot at Dawn has no known grave.

The Court Martial took place on 6th Sept 1914 at Chateau Combreaux near Tournan-en- Brie, which I think is the most south westerly point the Battalion reached before turning north east on the same day in advance against the Germans .

On 8th September 1914 at 7.07am Private Highgate in front of a Company of the 1/Dorsets and 1/Cheshires (part of 15 Brigade) was executed although I dont know where this was carried out. He has no known grave and is remembered at La Ferte Sous Jouarre Memorial some 30 miles North East of Chateau Combreaux. On the 8th Sept the lead Company of the Battalion was at Saacy a further 5 miles North East of La Ferte.

I may be wrong but I dont think the Germans advance in 1918 would have covered this ground. I also know there are many original cemeteries which were subsequently shelled and resulted in new memorials/headstones and of course amalgamations after the Armistice.

If anyone has any more information then I would be interested. Thanks

[ralphjd]

According to Shot at Dawn by Julian Putkowski and Julian Sykes Pte Highgates grave could not be found during the post-war years by the Imperial War Graves Commission. On the day he went missing his battalion had started to move northwards, advancing towards the Aisne (quote) Regards. Ralph.

[jay dubaya]

Cliff

all that I can add is that he was executed on the outskirts of Tournan. Highgate's AB64 (paybook) still exisits and has in it the incription

'If I get killed all I have to come from the Government for my services I leave to Miss Mary MacNutly, 3 Leinster Street, Phibsborough, Dublin'

Jon

[Cliff Rumsey]

Cliff

all that I can add is that he was executed on the outskirts of Tournan. Highgate's AB64 (paybook) still exisits and has in it the incription

'If I get killed all I have to come from the Government for my services I leave to Miss Mary MacNutly, 3 Leinster Street, Phibsborough, Dublin'

Jon

Thanks JD.

I knew about the so called 'irish sweetheart' with the Battalion being based in Dublin pre war.

What is the source for the execution on the outskirts of Tournan?

[archangel9]

Highgate, Thomas J L/10061?

If so (and in case you didn't know) there are some service records on Ancestry.

John

[archangel9]

Miss Mary McNutly, 3 Leinster Street, North (Arran Quay, Dublin)

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/page...t__North/43475/

[John_Hartley]

Highgate, Thomas J L/10061?

If so (and in case you didn't know) there are some service records on Ancestry.

That's him.

I wonder if he thought he'd get a sentence similar to the 42 days in prison he'd got when he'd deserted earlier in 1914?

John

[MelPack]

John

He deserted in February 1914 and it appears that he was only caught because he attempted a fraudulent enlistment at Woolwich as per his confession.

The medical report is quite revealing.

Mel

[MelPack]

The medical report by the RAMC Adjutant dated 9th June 1914 (?)

the final word overleaf is absence. There is no record of disciplinary action having been taken for this particular absence so presumably the findings of the Medical Officer were accepted.

Do we know any deatils of the circumstances of his desertion?

Mel

[MelPack]

[Cliff Rumsey]

Thank you Melpac for those pieces of information.

I just find it odd that a man who was so publically executed has no known grave. The La Ferte Sous Jouarre Memorial covers the fallen with no known grave of 60 of the 1/QORWK from 23 Aug 1914 to 2 Oct 1914 eg a huge area representing actions from Mons to Missy.

The nearest cemetery to Tournan with CWGC burials is at Coulommiers which is a French Communal Cemetery but has soldiers buried from actions in early Sept 1914.

[John_Hartley]

Cliff

I have it in mind from previous threads that there are a number of executed men with no known grave. No idea of numbers, though.

John

[themonsstar]

From General Routine Orders 10th Sept 1914.

No 10061 Pte Thomas James Highgate the Royal West Kent Regt, was tried by a Field General Court Martial on 6th Sept 1914 for "Desertion" the sentance of the Court was to suffer death by being shot the sentance was duly carried out at 7.7am Sept 8th 1914.

[ralphjd]

Thirty one SAD unknowns, two on the La-Ferte-sous-Jouarre Memorial Pte Highgate and 9641 Pte Ward within 18 days of each other. RIP. Ralph.

[GrahamC]

Cliff

If the 1/Cheshires were there on 8th September then the execution took place at Charnesseuil as the War Diary states that they arrived there at 7 p.m the night before.

Cpl. George Povey of the 1/Cheshire was executed at St. Jans Cappel in the Ypres Salient at 7.45 a.m. on 11 February 1915 (Qitting post). He also has no known grave and his name is recorded on the Menin Gate.

Graham

[Cliff Rumsey]

Thanks for all the information folks.

Charnesseuil is about 5 miles east of La Ferte. The QORWK where about 5 miles south at Boissy Le Chatel on the 8th.

So it appears that although the Court Martial was held at Tournan Private Highgate was then moved eastwards for his execution which presumably was near Charnesseuil on the morning of the 8th Sept.

I do realise that the key issue of the day was the turning of the Germans as part of the 1st Battle of the Marne but I still find it odd that he and nearly 30 in total SAD have no known grave.

[archangel9]

In keeping with the tone and content of the letter in post 10 -

"....Lord Kitcheners's note of sympathy will, of course, be omitted from the communication to the relatives who should simply be informed that the man was killed on the 8th........"

and in his servive records he is recorded as "Died Gun Shot wounds", is it possible that these men were held in such comtempt that they were buried in unmarked graves? Hence the 30 SAD no known grave.

John

[ralphjd]

To quote the Shot at Dawn book mentioned, Pte Charles Skilton was shot on Boxing Day 1916 in the small village of Yvrench. For a reason that is unclear, his grave was not located after the war and he is listed on the Thiepval Memorial. The village of Yvrench is 15 K n-east of Abbeville and there is every possibility that the search for graves in post-war years was not carried out so thoroughly in this area,it being so far from the battlefront. So who knows if any oof the unknown burials may still come to light in the future.

No mention of an unmarked grave for any executed man appears in any of the capital courts martial books in my collection. Ralph.

[Cliff Rumsey]

Peter Barton gave an excellent presentation at WFA Petts Wood a few weeks back and focussed on the incredible information held on Red Cross records.

It may be that these records will shed more light over time.

[jay dubaya]

What is the source for the execution on the outskirts of Tournan?

Sorry for not coming back sooner Cliff. The source is 'Blindfold and Alone'.

Do you know if Highgate's name appears on any other memorials? It appears that his family was never informed of the true circumstances of his death.

Ralph has mentioned a good point about the post war search being not so thorough in certain areas and one does wonder about the 'unmarked' graves of SaD cases.

Jon

[Kate Wills]

is it possible that these men were held in such comtempt that they were buried in unmarked graves? Hence the 30 SAD no known grave.

Thousands of marked graves, irrespective of their occupants' nationality and fate, were damaged and lost during the war. Sadly these 30 were amongst them. Nothing to do with offical policy, everything to do with attrition and the fortunes of war.

[jay dubaya]

Nothing to do with offical policy, everything to do with attrition and the fortunes of war.

Not that we would know any otherwise. I do agree with you though Kate, but it would be interesting to know the names of the 30 with no known grave and just how much information is out there which could help in finding these lost souls. I also think that Ralph's point about the areas which hadn't seen the mass slaughter perhaps holds some weight.

Jon

[kevin]

Jon Hope this is of interest.

Kevin

08-Sep14 Pte L/10061 Highgate, T J 1/RW Kent Desertion La Ferte-sous-Jouarre Mem ~

26-Sep14 Pte 9641 Ward, G 1/R Berks Cowardice La Ferte-sous-Jouarre Mem ~

27-Oct14 Pte 5919 Tanner, E 1/Wilts Desertion Le Touret Mem ~

19-Dec14 Pte 8278 Browne, A 2/Essex Desertion Ploegsteert Mem ~

12-Jan15 Pte L/14232 Ball, J 2/Middx Desertion Le Touret Mem ~

12-Jan15 Pte L/141641 Sheffield, F 2/Middx Desertion Le Touret Mem ~

28-Jan15 Pte 2222 Cummings, T 1/Irish Gds Desertion Le Touret Mem ~

28-Jan15 Pte 3379 Smythe, A 1/Irish Gds Desertion Le Touret Mem ~

03-Feb15 Pte S/6922 Scotton, W 4/Middx Desertion Menin Gate Mem ~

08-Feb15 Pte 8747 Pitts, A 2/Warwicks Desertion Ploegsteert Mem ~

11-Feb15 Cpl 10459 Povey, G H 1/Cheshire Leaving his post Menin Gate Mem ~

02-Mar15 Pte 9689 Hope, T 2/Leinster Desertion Ploegsteert Mem ~

06-Mar15 Pte 5231 Briggs, J 2/Borders Desertion Le Touret Mem ~

07-Mar15 Pte 6584 Duncan, J 1/Camerons Desertion Le Touret Mem ~

25-Apr15 Dvr 70304 Bell, J 57 Bty, 43, How. Bde, RFA Desertion Le Touret Mem ~

21-Jul15 Pte 3832 Burden, H F 1/N.Fus. Desertion Not Commemorated ~

26-Feb16 Dvr T4/040862 Moore, T 24 Division Train ASC Murder Menin Gate Mem ~

12-May16 Pte 7711 Fox, J 2/HLI Striking a Superior Officer Arras Memorial ~

18-Oct16 Pte 8871 Farr, H T 1/W Yorks Cowardice Thiepval Mem ~

26-Dec16 Pte SR/9629 Skilton, C W F 22/R.Fus. Desertion Thiepval Mem ~

28-Dec16 Pte 40806 Cairnie, P 1/R Scots Fus. Desertion Thiepval Mem ~

24-Mar17 Pte G/12341 Bowerman, W 1/Queen's Desertion Loos Memorial ~

28-Oct17 Pte 40422 Byrne, S 1/R Dublin Fus. Desertion Arras Memorial ~

21-Nov17 Pte 43499 Foulkes, T 1/10 Man Desertion Loos Memorial ~

27-Aug18 Pte G/18469 Butcher, F C 7/Buffs Desertion Vis-en-Artois Mem ~

02-Jul15 Pte 1/9804 Davis, T 1/R Munster Fus. Quitting post Not Commemorated ~

19-Feb17 Pte 10912 Burton, R 6/S Lancs Sleeping at post Basra Memorial ~

19-Feb17 Pte 10555 Downing, T 6/S Lancs Sleeping at post Basra Memorial ~

21-Feb17 Pte 10764 Jones, R M 6/S Lancs Desertion Basra Memorial ~

25-Jul17 Pte S/13248 Cutmore, G 2/B Watch Desertion Basra Memorial ~

[jay dubaya]

It's of great interest Kevin, many thanks for posting.

Jon

[Cliff Rumsey]

Thousands of marked graves, irrespective of their occupants' nationality and fate, were damaged and lost during the war. Sadly these 30 were amongst them. Nothing to do with offical policy, everything to do with attrition and the fortunes of war.

I understand that but in this case so early in the war and the locality of the execution struck me as an area that I believed to be significantly behind the front line for the remainder of the war (although I am not sure about 1918 German offensive) and that gave me to think there was another reason. That and the rapid movement of the BEF after this event.