Tunesmith Posted 26 February , 2009 Share Posted 26 February , 2009 Sorry, this is outside the 1914-18 period but can anyone help identify the unit in these photos?. The photos are on a page from a family album. There are hand-written captions 'Bugler', 'Uncle Ted' and 'Queen Victoria's Rifles at Aldershot'. At the bottom of the page there's another: 'Boer War'. The family definitely had a son in the QVRs who was killed in 1915. However he signed up in 1914 and his name wasn't Ted. There was a great-uncle who was a sergeant in the West Middlesex Rifles back in the 1860s As far as I can find out the QVRs were only formed in 1908 when the 1st and 19th Middlesex Rifles Corps amalgamated. So either these pics are post-1908 and not from the Boer War period, or they are not of the QVRs. Anyway, the horses make me assume they're cavalry, but what do I know? I'll post an attachment of the cut-off lower photo seperately With thanks, Tunesmith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tunesmith Posted 26 February , 2009 Author Share Posted 26 February , 2009 Here's the cut-off pic in full. Tunesmith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 27 February , 2009 Share Posted 27 February , 2009 .. As far as I can find out the QVRs were only formed in 1908 when the 1st and 19th Middlesex Rifles Corps amalgamated. So either these pics are post-1908 and not from the Boer War period, or they are not of the QVRs. Anyway, the horses make me assume they're cavalry, but what do I know? .. .. Tunesmith Tunesmith, You're about a century out! The QVRs are in fact one of the older volunteer units, though under different names, and a very illustrious unit ... Check out this Topic: London Regiment's former Volunteer Rifle Corps units, Links between LR, KRRC and Rifle Brigade Also this link: KRRC Association website - A Brief History of the QVRs (PDF document) The detachment sent to the South Africa campaign as part of the City Imperial Volunteers I believe operated as a corps of mounted rifleman. As mobile as cavalry, but dismounting to fight, never charging: not cavalry, but more a very early (and successful) experiment in mechanised infantry. I think that's what's in your pics. The other possibility is it might just be the unit's officers, who would generally be mounted. The unit marching past the band in the bottom picture is being lead by their officers on foot. Incidentally, notice the rifles being carried at the trail in classic rifles style. The rifles regiments have a long tradition of fast mobility rooted back into the original role as fast independent skirmishers (hence their fast marching pace) and between the wars were one of the early adopters of the principles of mechanised infantry. In the very famous action at Calais in 1940, the QVRs, 2/KRRC and 1/Rifle Brigade deployed as a motor battalions, in support of 3rd Royal Tank Regiment, with the intention of conducting a mobile campaign countering the German Blitzkrieg. Unfortunately their mobility was badly limited by dificulties in unloading the transports and tanks due to stuka bombing and artillery, and the sheer speed at which the German Panzer division bottled up the town. You might also check out this Topic where I have very tentatively identified the unit as the QVRs: Samuel Hugh Newman, Unit identification It contains some good photos probably taken at annual camp which are an interesting comparison to yours. No sign of slouch hats though, but I understand these were common in the territorial units. The KRRC Cadet Battalion also wore them. One of the uniforms expert Pals can probably give us a date when the slouch hat and pillbox cap switched over to the peaked service cap. Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tunesmith Posted 27 February , 2009 Author Share Posted 27 February , 2009 Mark, Many thanks for putting me right and clearing this up. Really useful links, too. All the best, Tunesmith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 27 February , 2009 Share Posted 27 February , 2009 Photo's were possibly taken sometime between 1900 & 1908. The pill-box cap disappeared about at the turn of the century for most units that wore them i.e. Corps rather than infantry, but the pill box cap was a feature of those who served in rifle regiments and can be found being worn by those serving in the Rifle Brigade, Kings Royal Rifles and Rifle Volunteer units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 27 February , 2009 Share Posted 27 February , 2009 Photo's were possibly taken sometime between 1900 & 1908. The pill-box cap disappeared about at the turn of the century for most units that wore them i.e. Corps rather than infantry, but the pill box cap was a feature of those who served in rifle regiments and can be found being worn by those serving in the Rifle Brigade, Kings Royal Rifles and Rifle Volunteer units. And of course famously the ghurkhas Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 10 March , 2009 Share Posted 10 March , 2009 Photo's were possibly taken sometime between 1900 & 1908. The pill-box cap disappeared about at the turn of the century for most units that wore them i.e. Corps rather than infantry, but the pill box cap was a feature of those who served in rifle regiments and can be found being worn by those serving in the Rifle Brigade, Kings Royal Rifles and Rifle Volunteer units. Graham, Any info on the period for the slouch hat? I have pictures of the QVRs from 1880s and 1890s wearing the helmet - e.g. : Other pics from the same period show the pill box cap, but no slouch hats. I seem to remember the slouch hat becoming popular after the South Africa campaign? That would put this in the 1900s decade. Can the Pals advise? Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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