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Remembered Today:

Forgotten WW1 related conflicts


burlington

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This WW1 related topic seems to have been ignored nationally. There were reports of major soldier discontent, mainly related to demob problems, including a threat to turn machine guns on to a battalion (?) of soldiers refusing orders, after 1919.

This all seems to have surfaced around 1919 and the first Cenotaph service, but continued in to the '20's with serious hardship of the demobbed soldiers.

Anyone with hard information, and to start a major discussion thread?

Martin

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The Kinmel Park camp riots of 1919 have been discussed several times on the forum, Martin, but I don't recall any others. Do you have any specific instances?

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Martin

The only book I am aware on the subject is "The Soldier Strikes of 1919" by Andrew Rothstein (Macmillan Press 1980) although it is written from a particular political viewpoint.

On this topic I am still searching for more details of the Labour Corps strike at Sutton in 1919 so if anyone out there has information I would be most grateful.

Ivor

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The Kinmel Park camp riots of 1919 have been discussed several times on the forum, Martin, but I don't recall any others. Do you have any specific instances?

If I may jump in here, there was a small disturbance at the Witley Camp on the night of May 5, 1919 which involved battalions of the 4th Brigade. The following is taken from the Kingston Daily British Whig, dated May 22, 1919.

Halifax, May 22 – The SS Caronia’s troops were in command of Brig.-Gen Robert Rennie, MVC, who headed the brigade practically all the time it was in France. General Rennie stated that the slight disturbance, which had occurred at Witley camp previous to sailing had been greatly exaggerated. As a matter of fact, it had amounted to nothing at all.

Lieut.-Col H. E. Pense, DSO, MC, officer commanding the 21st Eastern Ontario Battalion, which is to be demobilized at Kingston explained that the fourth brigade, owing to its being the senior brigade of the second division, was to have sailed for Canada first, and arrangements had been made for sailing on the Saxonia on May 4th. This sailing however, was subsequently cancelled while that arranged for the fifth brigade was not, with the result that the latter brigade got away first. Some of the men of the fourth brigade felt they had a grievance, and this added to the general reaction induced by a period of comparative inactivity, following the strenuous years of war, had precipitated a disturbance, such as it was. It broke out at 10:30 o’clock on the night of May 5th and as an evidence of the promptness with which it was handled and the really insignificant character of the affair, Col Pense stated that everything was quiet and he was in bed shortly after midnight. Less than five per cent of the battalion were involved in the affair. One man attempted to make a speech from an overturned soap box but he was not heard, and there was absolutely no organization back of the outbreak and nothing in the way of formal demands.

The disturbance was quieted by officers going among the man and calling upon them to move away. The damage involved amounted to approximately $500 and as the result of the investigation held into the affair this damage was equally assessed among all the units occupying that section of Witley camp in which the fourth brigade was quartered.

Lieut.-Col L. E. Jones DSO, commanding the 18th Eastern Ontario Battalion, to be demobilized at London; Lieut Col A. H. Milling DSO commanding the 19th Central Ontario Battalion; and Lieut Col B. S. Hooper, DSO, MC, commanding the 20th Central Ontario Battalion corroborated what Brig Gen Rennie and Col Pense had said regarding the Witley camp and all expressed their regret that notice of it had crept into cabled dispatches.

General Rennie stated that the conduct of the Canadian troops generally in England following the armistice had been exemplary despite the apparent desire on the part of some Englishmen to exaggerate anything that might prove uncomplimentary to these troops.

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Recently demobbed service men burnt down Luton Town hall in 1919 on Peace Day - does this count?

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'A King's Story', the autobiographical memoirs of the Duke of Windsor, spring 1919 -

'As I began to move about the country, it dawned on me that people were discontented and disillusioned. The service men not yet discharged were angry over the clumsy demobilisation programme; those who had been demobilised were disgruntled over the lack of jobs and homes; the disabled were bitter over inadequate disability pensions". And later "I had seen enough to convince myself that the trouble went far deeper, that the social unrest was related to the slaughter and misery that the first "people's war" had inflicted upon the whole population'.

post-15439-1214755259.jpg

This is a splendid photo taken in 1920 of Great War veterans lined up on the Square, Ruthin, to meet Edward, Prince of Wales. The photo was taken on the actual second that Thomas Jones, refused to shake hands with the Prince of Wales, and told him that he was upset by the treatment given to veterans by the government at the end of the war. Notice his body language, head down, arms defiantly crossed; Edward's extended arm. Notice the body reactions of his co-veterans - leaning forwards, aware that something different is happening. Look at the Mayor's reaction. His words, apparently were that he and his fellow veterans were not given "a home fit for heroes, nor a cow and four acres as promised." He also condemned the way many of his fellows 'were locked up in the workhouse on 2/6 a week'.

There is a good article here that's worth a read,

cheers, Jon

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I quote from Neil Hanson 'The Unknown Soldier'

'Demonstrations in Dover, Brighton, Folkestone & Whitehall'

'Troops looting in Etaples'

'5000 troops in Calais surrounded on Haig's orders by loyal troops with machine guns'

and that was just the problem with demobilisation until the system was changed.

Not a lot has been written about the hardships faced by ex-soldiers in the 1920's which I think is a pity as we start to remember the 90th anniversary of the Armistice.

martin

Martin

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When Lloyd George talked about a Home fit for Heros (or a Land fit for Heros) he had no idea how to deliver this , it was what we would call today a good sound bite (LG was the original spinner). To be fair no one had planned the war ending in 1918 everybody was expecting a 1919 campaign at least so there was no plan for the peace (when is there ever?).

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